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Topic:
Modern Classics of World Literature (currently disc. "The Grapes of Wrath" by John Steinbeck)
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Mariu
Registered:
Sep '06
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Date Posted:
12/29/06 5:00pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Pride and Prejudice)
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NYCitygurl posted:
Esperanza_Nueva posted:
It's funny how Austen is 100X more romantic than that drivel and the closest physical contact is often no more than the touch of a hand. Also, Mr. Darcy is hotter than any of those cover guys...in my mind anyway. 
 Well, often those aren't even romantic, just full of sex Being romantic is something different  And I think that she does manage to pull off the romance, especaly with Jane and Bingley.
Yes, yes, I agree--just check out the online fanfics (non-TF.net) to see what is the Anti-Austen. How many of the modern characters still write essay-length letters to each other? Conceded, you have e-mail and text-message, but not the same taste and thoughtfulness. It takes much wit to save romantic gestures from both camp and corniness.
Most of my female friends are fans of Austen, not to mention that many of them own multiple editions of the movies of P&P. So yes, all waiting for their Mr. Darcy...
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"You can't be a mother and an artist at the same time. Choose!" --Dame Elisabeth Schwarzkopf, to a fellow artist
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/4/07 9:17am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Pride and Prejudice)
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Brave New World
Aldous Huxley's classic is set in a futuristic dystopia where complete happiness is the goal of everyone (mostly through sex). There are no families, and children are grown in test-tubes. These babies are injected with drugs that dull their wits, until some (the Alphas) are very bright, while all that the Epsilons are good for is menial work.
Huxley explores the idea that pleasure is the most motivating fator for humans (in contrast to Orwell's 1984, which suggests that fear is the most motivating factor). Huxley's World State, which controls the entire globe, is very dominating and very much in control, a bit like the Party. Sex abounds, which disgusts the protagonist, John Savage, who wants true love and uses Shakespeare to understand the world.
A very unnerving book, Brave New World has become one of the most important classics and is a lesson to all.
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Master of padawanlost, Ultima_1, Jedimaster_JainaSolo, and Vaders_Angel 
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
1/4/07 10:15am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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I thought he was a bit obsessed with sex, and while it isn't a book I think I really enjoyed, it is one that really makes you think. Personally I think 1984 is a bit more insightful and interesting as I believe that such a totalitarian government would rise from fear, not "pleasure." However BNW can serve as a warning of the social and moral problems created when traditional social mores are destroyed.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/6/07 2:46pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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I hated it; it was just too weird for me (and the part with the kids playing . . . ew). It put it down after about 80 pages.
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Master of padawanlost, Ultima_1, Jedimaster_JainaSolo, and Vaders_Angel
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Cobranaconda
Title: Ex-FF-UK: South CR
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/6/07 3:01pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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I loved it, possibly the best dysotopic novel I've ever read. I don't mind sex in books, and the ideas were good and put down well. It didn't bore me, and I can even re-read it. As for the kids, I don't see the problem with it. It's taboo in our culture, but in the future, we don't know what taboos will be (like the idea of parenthood being offensive and disgusting), so we can't really judge it.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
1/7/07 3:47am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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Of course I can judge it. The idea that parenthood should be taboo is just plain wrong. If you can't condemn that, then you have taken the cultural relativism way too far. Removing child rearing from the family unit is shown even in the novel to be very problematic for society.
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A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.
Theodore Roosevelt
We should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe.
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/7/07 2:20pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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I could deal with that (even though I think making babes mentally incapacitated on purpose is wrong) but the ick factor with the kids and their 'games' really weirded me out.
I did like the "Our Ford" bit as a play on "Our Lord." Had me in giggles 
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Master of padawanlost, Ultima_1, Jedimaster_JainaSolo, and Vaders_Angel
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Fluke_Groundrunner
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/8/07 9:56am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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This book was disturbing, and I don't think I would try to read it again, however, it did deal with some important themes that are relavent to how today's world is moving closer to what we actually see in the novel.
I don't think that you need to like the book, or agree with anything within it, to engage in a good debate of it's subject matter.
A Brave New World was written in the 1930s, and the idea that a drug (soma) can help people escape from whatever problems they have in their lives, is something that is definately more real now then it was back then. If you are depressed, take a drug. If you are in pain, take a drug. If your hair is falling out, or you have a rash, or you want to become sexual stimulated, etc, etc, etc. If anything, we are moving towards that Brave New World then away from it.
People are also conditioned from birth (or perhaps before, I can't recall) to become the person that they are, and the class that they will be a part of. However, there are some characters who seem to be unhappy with that conditioning. They seem to be their own person. Perhaps this is desling with the nature vs. nurture that may have been more popular to discuss during that time?
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/11/07 3:22pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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It's certainly important to discuss, and I agree with what you said about us moving toward that state today (and the world of 1984 as well).
Before birth; they're injected with drugs to control their IQs.
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Master of padawanlost, Ultima_1, Jedimaster_JainaSolo, and Vaders_Angel
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
1/18/07 10:44pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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I have never read it, and I guess I should...
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/20/07 7:46am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Brave New World)
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It's one of those that everyone should read (unfortunately, I just found out I'll probably have to read it for school next year  ).
Our next book is Oliver Twist by Charles Dickens
It's a bit of a hard read if you try the full version first, but a good book and a classic nonetheless. It is Dickens' second novel.
Little orphaned boy Oliver lives a hard life in workhouses and as a miserable apprentice until, after an invitation from the Artful Dodger, he joins a criminal gang led by Fagin.
The story follows Oliver's journey as he ends up with Mr. Brownlow, a kindly friend of his father's, and gets tangled up further with Fagin's gang, the criminal Sikes, and his half-brother, Monk.
Oliver is a sweet boy whose famous line "Please, sir, may I have some more" will break your heart and entrance you into the classic tale.
If you want more plot information, visit this article.
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Master of padawanlost, Ultima_1, Jedimaster_JainaSolo, and Vaders_Angel
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
1/20/07 11:07pm
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Oliver Twist)
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Dickens himself had a brief stint in a workhouse as a boy. In his novels, he wanted to address social ills, and in this case, the poorhouse system. This book has been adapted numerous times; they usually simplify the plot, omitting the half-brother section (which is not much of a loss).
But Dickens' villians are generally much more vivid that his heroes. Fagin, Bill Sikes, and the Artful Dodger are all highly memorable characters, as is the painfully conflicted Nancy. Dickens used to give public readings from his books, and the murder of Nancy was always good for a fainting or two among the audience. The David Lean film version of the book does it more subtlely...you don't see anything; you just hear it from behind a door, while Bulldog, Sikes' pit bull terrior scratches frenziedly at it.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/07 3:33am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Oliver Twist)
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i used to hate dickens with a passion when i read the first half of the excruciatingly boring david copperfield. and then a student gave me the tiniest bit of oliver twist (little bag of bones) and now i'm thinking i ought to read it etc etc. and i can't find it in the library and/or i'm busy reading kim by kipling. take your pick
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
1/22/07 7:10am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Oliver Twist)
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Dickens can seem very dull to modern readers, you have to be patient. Part of the difficulty was that he originally wrote the novels serial-style for the magazines. It made for a prolix style, among other things.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/07 4:40am
Subject:
RE: Modern Classics of World Literature (currently discussing Oliver Twist)
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why, yes, it just seemed that the excerpt from oliver twist at least was worth reading in a sense that there was some urgency to the narrative whereas with david copperfield, weill, i just agonized through chapter after chapter without ever really connecting to whatever dickens tried to say.
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illegalise stupidity.
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