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Topic:
The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #1: The tyranny of the opening weekend box office
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JediOverlord
Registered:
Apr '00
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Date Posted:
6/9 9:13am
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #9: The money pit that was Heaven's Gate
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I once saw a documentary about the making of Heaven's Gate. Let's just say it doesn't paint a pretty picture Michael Cimino.
For those who say blockbuster films like Star Wars ruined Hollywood, I use this as evidence to say, nope, the filmmakers did it to themselves.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
6/9 4:25pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #9: The money pit that was Heaven's Gate
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There is also a book, written by one of the producers, Steven Bach, called "Final Cut". Bach was fired in the debacle, but he had his revenge; Cimino's career never recovered. He was fired from several projects when he tried the tricks that had worked against UA in "Heaven's Gate". Everyone had read the book, and were wise, unfortunately for him. It was not that Cimino didn't have talent--he did; but he also possibly was bipolar--judging from his grandiosity and spending sprees. The result brought down a very important Hollywood studio, and really was felt later on, when the studios grew nervous of trying new and different things.
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/10 2:42pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #9: The money pit that was Heaven's Gate
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Final Cut is one of the few books about the movies that I am totally comfortable calling a classic for all time. It's funny, heartbreaking, infuriating and brilliant. Bach has great voice and he makes you get into the story, which is a great one for sure.
I'd recommend everyone read Final Cut; it's an essential.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
6/11 11:25am
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #9: The money pit that was Heaven's Gate
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I've got an old copy, and I started rereading it. I understand that Cimino is now preparing a version of Andre Malraux's "Man's Hope". That other rumour about him that hit the net was a hoax.
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NYCitygurl
Title: Manager of SFFBC, C&G, and NSWFF
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
6/25 7:17am
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #9: The money pit that was Heaven's Gate
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8. Woody Allen: the past ten years.
We're not mad just — deeply disappointed. We adore Woody, which is why we're so upset: Every year we go to see his latest, only to find ourselves walking out of the theater, stunned at how one-note, sophomoric, and just plain unpleasant his movies have become. The few good ones (Sweet and Lowdown, Bullets Over Broadway) haven't helped stem the sickening recognition that a brilliant auteur has been replaced by a shrill hack.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/25 9:36am
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
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Match Point is a fine, taut thriller; Anything Else is an excellent coming-of-age comedy; Sweet and Lowdown is one of Woody's best movies. Three awesome films in the last nine years does not equal disaster, even if his work is hit and miss.
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
6/25 12:12pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
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Overwhelming success is not generally a good thing for an artist, especially an American one. Also: tastes have changed. Allen, who apparently lives in Venice, has becomes estranged from his roots, rather like Kubrick. At one point, I thought he needed to get out of the small area of New York he frequents, but London is not necessarily much of a change. It's a bad sign when he starts saying America doesn't appreciate him the way Europe does. Makes him sound like Jerry Lewis.
And of course, the scandal didn't help, making his obsession with underage or infantile women look less funny and more weird.
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Drew_Atreides
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
6/25 2:39pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
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Vortigern99 posted:
Match Point is a fine, taut thriller
Match Point was one of the more hamfisted, sophmoric movies i've seen in the past couple of years. Rhys-Meyers and Johansson had absolutely ZERO chemistry.. Why Woody continues to try to make her his muse is beyond my ability to comprehend. She's pretty to look at, but she's reached her ceiling as an actress and it ain't very high..
Predictable and moronic. Hard to believe the Master auteurs of the 70's was involved with such rubbish.
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JohnWesleyDowney
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
6/25 3:19pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
- Date Edited:
6/25 3:23pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
JohnWesleyDowney
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The scene in Match Point where Scarlett is drunk is one of the best directed, best acted scenes I've seen in a drama in a long time. I thought it was a fine film with something to say about the unpredictability of life and how things can turn on a dime.
Matchpoint was easily Woody's most popular film ever...it grossed 85 million world-wide...he's never had another film that even came close to those kind of ticket sales overall.
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How many movies do you think Industrial Light and Magic has worked on? WRONG. http://www.ilm.com/ilm_services.html "Films fulfill an unconscious spiritual desire that human beings have to share a common memory." - Martin Scorcese
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Drew_Atreides
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
6/25 5:12pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
- Date Edited:
6/25 5:13pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Drew_Atreides
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..probably because it was at the height of Scarlett's HOT phase...
I keep reading people saying it had something interesting to say about luck and whatnot.
I dunno, i think it had something blatantly obvious to say about the unpredictability of life, and i thought it said it in an overkill-sorta way...
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/26 3:20pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
- Date Edited:
6/26 3:23pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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Drew_Atreides posted:
Vortigern99 posted:
Match Point is a fine, taut thriller
Match Point was one of the more hamfisted, sophmoric movies i've seen in the past couple of years. Rhys-Meyers and Johansson had absolutely ZERO chemistry.. Why Woody continues to try to make her his muse is beyond my ability to comprehend. She's pretty to look at, but she's reached her ceiling as an actress and it ain't very high..
Predictable and moronic. Hard to believe the Master auteurs of the 70's was involved with such rubbish.
I totally disagree. I think it's a smart, challenging piece of crime fiction. While the story is nominally about luck (the ball hanging on the net; the gold ring), it's also about infidelity and matters of the heart with which Allen is intimately familiar. I find especially compelling the initital depiction of the Johanssen character as something of a femme fatale, a seductress worth giving up one's life and career over, contrasted with her later revelation as a clingy, no-talent shopgirl. This shows enormous insight into the fleeting nature of physical attraction; I cannot recall the subject being treated so realistically in any film before or sense. What the Rhys-Meyers character gets away with -- including coldly keeping his fiancee waiting, then cheating on her repeatedly, then commmitting a double-murder -- is appalling yet cynically real-world, and the ending -- in which the gold ring we think is going to sign his death knell unexpectedly provides his alibi instead -- is ingenious.
I regret that you did not enjoy the film, but it was extremely well received both by the public and by critics, and was nominated for and won several awards, a direct refutation to the idea put forward that somehow Allen's output of the past 10 years has been "disastrous".
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"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
6/26 4:13pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
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Vortigern99 posted:
I regret that you did not enjoy the film, but it was extremely well received both by the public and by critics, and was nominated for and won several awards, a direct refutation to the idea put forward that somehow Allen's output of the past 10 years has been "disastrous".
I agree that it was extremely well received, and it's a very fun movie that shows Allen in top form. Personally, I also enjoyed Scoop[/p] very very much; [b]Cassandra's Crossing may have been one of his weaker films of recent years but, in any event, it's very rare to see an American filmmaker enjoying such regular output at such a late stage of his life. Making a new movie almost every year is no easy fit in today's film industry.
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/26 4:37pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
- Date Edited:
6/26 4:43pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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Ooh, I haven't seen either of those, Tina -- but I'm looking forward to it! Even when Allen makes a dud, it's usually an engaging dud with some interesting ideas, witty dialogue and solid performances. On that note, Anything Else, which received poor critical response (40% on RT!) and low audience turnout, is personally one of my all-time favorite Woody movie. It's a delighful romantic coming-of-age comedy with Jason Biggs, Christina Ricci and Allen himself as a know-nothing, would-be mentor. Rent it tonight!
EDIT: Here's Woody cinematic output of the last 10 years. Even if some of these did poorly, given the gems in this catalogue, can we really say that his career has become a "disaster"?:
Celebrity (1998)
Sweet & Lowdown (1999)
Smalltime Crooks (2000)
Curse of the Jade Scorpion (2001)
Hollywood Ending (2002)
Anything Else (2003)
Melinda & Melinda (2005)
Match Point (2005)
Scoop (2006)
Cassandra's Dream (2007)
Vicky Cristina Barcelona (2008)
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Drew_Atreides
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
6/26 7:26pm
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
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Vortigern99 posted:
I totally disagree. I think it's a smart, challenging piece of crime fiction. While the story is nominally about luck (the ball hanging on the net; the gold ring), it's also about infidelity and matters of the heart with which Allen is intimately familiar. I find especially compelling the initital depiction of the Johanssen character as something of a femme fatale, a seductress worth giving up one's life and career over, contrasted with her later revelation as a clingy, no-talent shopgirl. This shows enormous insight into the fleeting nature of physical attraction; I cannot recall the subject being treated so realistically in any film before or sense. What the Rhys-Meyers character gets away with -- including coldly keeping his fiancee waiting, then cheating on her repeatedly, then commmitting a double-murder -- is appalling yet cynically real-world, and the ending -- in which the gold ring we think is going to sign his death knell unexpectedly provides his alibi instead -- is ingenious.
Really?......Really...
Ya know, i ventured over to the imdb messageboards, and found similar posts to both your's (strongly supporting the film) and mine (absolutely clueless as to why it warrants such support).
The conclusion seemed to be that Woody has some fairly devoted fans who love what he does. All others beware.
I can't dispute any of the points you make about the subject matter of the film, but i do dispute that it is in anyway fresh or ingenious. Nothing said here that hasn't been said before.
Matters were not aided by the baffoonery displayed by the cops investigating the case.
There are just so many ridiculous coincidences and conveniences. The whole thing was just really forced, and the zero-chemistry factor between Rhys-Meyers and Johansson doesn't help.
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Zaz
Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
6/27 8:45am
Subject:
RE: The 50 Biggest Hollywood Disasters -- #8: Woody Allen: the past ten years
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If you want to see a completely clueless performance, try Rhys-Meyers in "The Tudors". Hey, there, Jonathan! Henry VIII was not a snarling skin-head!
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