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Topic:
Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc.The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
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Boba_Fett_2001
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
4/9 8:05pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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JediPrettyBoy posted:
EDIT: I am assuming that X2 and Wrath of Khan will be fitting into this mix eventually.
Or a certain science fiction movie. 
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
-Games
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
4/9 8:59pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
- Date Edited:
4/9 9:00pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
The2ndQuest
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Gonk posted:
Now Spider-Man 2 was good. Very good. I'm not in agreement with 2nd Quest that it was a bad film.
Just to be clear- I don't think SM2 was a bad film, just overrated. I just find it hard to say SM2 was clearly better than SM1 or 3, or that it's the best superhero movie (or among them). I still really enjoyed the movie, despite it's flaws.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
4/10 6:30am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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Spiderfan posted:
I mean they even went so far as to include having the same old shtick of having the webshooters fail (something that shouldn't be a issue for organic webshooters).
it's the psychology of it. you can still fail even though something is inside your body.
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Fluke_Groundrunner
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
4/10 7:05am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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After Unbreakable, Spiderman 2 is probably the best superhero movie of the modern era, but I think that Batman Begins and The Hulk would be nipping at it's heals. Yes, I said The Hulk.
You can probably already put the next Superman movie in the category of sequels that surpass their predecessor, simply because I did not like Superman Returns. I agree with those of you who did not like the first Spiderman.
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/10 7:21am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
- Date Edited:
4/10 7:23am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Spiderfan
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darth_frared posted:
Spiderfan posted:
I mean they even went so far as to include having the same old shtick of having the webshooters fail (something that shouldn't be a issue for organic webshooters).
it's the psychology of it. you can still fail even though something is inside your body.
I realize that, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. In the comics and most other adaptations Peter's mechanical webshooters require cartridges of webfluid that are continually needing replacement often in the most inopportune moments like in the midst of a swing or during a battle with a particularly difficult villain allowing for the character to be caught of guard and thus be placed in significant danger. With the organic webshooters that theoretically isn't a factor (though I suppose there could be a limitation as to how much the body can produce at one time), so it was nice to see that they still alluded to that bit from the comics despite the change in webshooters. And gave it a rather reasonable explanation IMO.
For the record I didn't hate the first Spider-Man film, I just felt that it needed significant improvement and was generally lacking. And though I am generally rather vocal about Spider-Man 3 (often rather negatively) I acknowledge that there were redeeming qualities and enjoyable moments. What I don't understand is how people think it was the most entertaining of the three. However I fully admit that I am biased.
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ShrunkenJedi
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
4/10 7:33am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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Spiderfan posted:
What I don't understand is how people think it was the most entertaining of the three. However I fully admit that I am biased.
I haven't seen the three in a while, but I recall enjoying the first more... and I do think I know why. I'm an absolute stickler for angst, and there was *inherently* just a ton of that in the first, that the subsequent ones just couldn't top, in three ways. 1, the death of Uncle Ben; 2, Peter actually having to come to grips with the fact that he *actually had spider traits and how to use them properly*; and 3, the whole Goblin bit-- the villain was his best friend's father who had treated him like a second son, and now his friend hates him-- except, wait, he doesn't know it's him. He hates Spiderman. Which is the same thing, but lays on the internal guilt even more. And then there's the aspect of finding out whether the girl he fantasizes over likes him-- or Spiderman.
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/10 7:47am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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ShrunkenJedi posted:
Spiderfan posted:
What I don't understand is how people think it was the most entertaining of the three. However I fully admit that I am biased.
I haven't seen the three in a while, but I recall enjoying the first more... and I do think I know why. I'm an absolute stickler for angst, and there was *inherently* just a ton of that in the first, that the subsequent ones just couldn't top, in three ways. 1, the death of Uncle Ben; 2, Peter actually having to come to grips with the fact that he *actually had spider traits and how to use them properly*; and 3, the whole Goblin bit-- the villain was his best friend's father who had treated him like a second son, and now his friend hates him-- except, wait, he doesn't know it's him. He hates Spiderman. Which is the same thing, but lays on the internal guilt even more. And then there's the aspect of finding out whether the girl he fantasizes over likes him-- or Spiderman.
Angst is a key theme in all three (and of course the comics) and I daresay that it gets progressively angstier with each one. Two not only reitterates Uncle Ben's death but further emphasizes what Peter loses by being Spider-Man and the Harry/Petter stuff gets much deeper. Not to mention the villain is partially motivated by the death of his wife. Three is perhaps the most angsty of all the films for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the black suit which is almost angst personified. Add Sandman and Brock's plight, the further decay of Harry's friendship, and MJ's jealousy and you have a film oozing with angst.
Now I will give Spider-Man 1 credit for perhaps the best balanced angst where they are not overdoing it, but I am not sure I agree that it has the most angst.
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ShrunkenJedi
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
4/10 8:05am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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Spiderfan posted:
Angst is a key theme in all three (and of course the comics) and I daresay that it gets progressively angstier with each one. Two not only reitterates Uncle Ben's death but further emphasizes what Peter loses by being Spider-Man and the Harry/Petter stuff gets much deeper. Not to mention the villain is partially motivated by the death of his wife. Three is perhaps the most angsty of all the films for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the black suit which is almost angst personified. Add Sandman and Brock's plight, the further decay of Harry's friendship, and MJ's jealousy and you have a film oozing with angst.
Now I will give Spider-Man 1 credit for perhaps the best balanced angst where they are not overdoing it, but I am not sure I agree that it has the most angst.
Oh yes, I'll agree that there was a lot of angst in each of them. Maybe best balanced (which I think I agree with) gets at what I meant, but I'm not sure... and maybe that he has to reinvent himself and take that first step to become Spidey with all that represents, while he already is that and knows how it feels in the subsequent movies. I do very much enjoy the Harry/Peter dynamic in the third movie, but as for Sandman and Doc Ock's motivations, while I definitely felt they enriched the landscape and the theme of responsibility and debt to a dead family member and what to do with that feeling, I saw the movie very much through Peter's eyes. And Doc Ock and Sandman just don't have as close personal ties to Peter.
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/10 8:33am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
- Date Edited:
4/10 8:38am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Spiderfan
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ShrunkenJedi posted:
And Doc Ock and Sandman just don't have as close personal ties to Peter.
I can't agree in this regard. While Ock may not have been a character Peter was always close to they developed a significant bond. Peter has always had a strange need to find a father figure in his life and in Octavius he found a mentor and role model and saw the success that he could possibly have if he embraced Octavius' thinking. But after the accident he is forced to deal with the descent of a brilliant man (who possessed so much potential to help the world) fall so far. And Sandman, being the supposed killer of Peter's Uncle represents a significant amount of angst as Peter lets go of what he knows is right and wrong and falls pray to the desire for revenge. There is so much more there but I don't want to give too much away if others haven't seen it.
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StarDude
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/10 1:27pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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One of my biggest disappointments with Spider-Man 3 was the lack of closure to Norman Osbourne. And Harry just sort of decides to turn good after some butler, whose hardly been on-screen in the other films, tells him that "Oh wait. Peter didn't kill your father." Harry should have had an argument with Norman that brought closure to that.
The movie's too sloppy for me to fully enjoy it.
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JMJacenSolo
Registered:
May '06
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Date Posted:
4/10 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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Spider-Man 3's script to me was almost farcical. It reminded me of an episode of Three's Company in that all Mary Jane had to do was utter one sentence ("I got fired") and the conflict driving the narrative would have evaporated.
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
4/10 2:37pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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My favorite scene out of Spider-man 2 was the end scene where Harry discovers his father's secret room behind the mirror.
I was soo pumped at that-"Oh! Awesome! quasi-brothers are gonna duke it out, NEXT MOVIE!"
I couldn't have given a rat's ass if Venom was in it or not 
Sadly, they had to go with that loser..:p
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LilyHobbitJedi
Title:
Apples to Apples and 20 Questions hostess
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/10 2:51pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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I loved Spider-Man 2, it truly showed the most depth of any of the movies. In particular I really liked the character of Doc Oct, and truly felt bad for him when he died.
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
4/10 7:59pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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"Terminator 2: Judgement Day"
The first one is a sci-fi classic. The second one is a sci-fi masterpiece. Conceptually, this movie should not have worked: Arnold is the good guy, the main character is a 13 year old, the villian is liquid metal, but it does just that, works. It takes elements from the first film, a machine going back in time to change the future, but adds a new angle when the protagonists decide to destroy Skynet and prevent Judgement Day. This is Cameron's best movie and one of the best sci-fi movies ever made.
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Yodas-evil-twin
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
4/10 8:00pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Spider-Man 2"
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To be honest, I think T2 is incredibly overrated. Still love the first film however.
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