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Topic:
Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc.The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
4/12 8:57am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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"The Empire Strikes Back"
Yeah, no explanation necessary. I'm sure we are all familiar with this one.
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McCain/Palin '08
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RX_Sith
Title: Monopoly host
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
4/12 9:51am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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Yep, classic all around. From "I am your father..." to "Noooooooooooo!" this is the epitome of Star Wars movies.
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ApolloSmileGirl
Registered:
Jun '04
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Date Posted:
4/12 9:53am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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DarthBoba posted:
My favorite scene out of Spider-man 2 was the end scene where Harry discovers his father's secret room behind the mirror.
I was soo pumped at that-"Oh! Awesome! quasi-brothers are gonna duke it out, NEXT MOVIE!"
I couldn't have given a rat's ass if Venom was in it or not 
Sadly, they had to go with that loser..:p
Completely agree with that. Venom was not necessary and I don't care what Raimi claims, I just know he was pressured into having him in there. It took away from the Sandman character way to much, which even managed to have a decent storyline with what it was given. I'd have been ok with having Eddie Brock in the film, and even the church scene, but they should have left it at that in Spiderman 3. Plus, I'm still urked that they made MJ the initial love interest before Gwen. Wouldn't have minded MJ being in the first two films, but Gwen should have been in the series earlier.
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/12 10:11am
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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ApolloSmileGirl posted:
DarthBoba posted:
My favorite scene out of Spider-man 2 was the end scene where Harry discovers his father's secret room behind the mirror.
I was soo pumped at that-"Oh! Awesome! quasi-brothers are gonna duke it out, NEXT MOVIE!"
I couldn't have given a rat's ass if Venom was in it or not
Sadly, they had to go with that loser..:p
Completely agree with that. Venom was not necessary and I don't care what Raimi claims, I just know he was pressured into having him in there. It took away from the Sandman character way to much, which even managed to have a decent storyline with what it was given. I'd have been ok with having Eddie Brock in the film, and even the church scene, but they should have left it at that in Spiderman 3. Plus, I'm still urked that they made MJ the initial love interest before Gwen. Wouldn't have minded MJ being in the first two films, but Gwen should have been in the series earlier.
Sadly MJ is more marketable and seems to have greater general appeal...which is a mistake as more often Gwen is a better character. The problem is that many writers have a hard time understanding what makes Gwen interesting, which is evident in both the comics and the movies. Sadly too many people assume her purpose was to die...thats it. While her death was certainly a significant turning point, it doesn't solely define the character. But again people don't understand that and thus neglect the character out of a disinterest from being forced to kill her off in every incarnation.
I would have been fine with MJ being the primary love interest if, and only if, they could get her character right. Sadly they failed in so many ways and by the end of the series she just becomes an enormous wet blanket that just dampens the entire experience.
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"Yeah, well my god has a hammer." - Nick Fury  You look like you could use a hug: http://boards.theforce.net/your_jedi_council_community/b10008/28325808/p1/?211 Pulsies4Mod '08
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
-LACWAC
-Lit Mod of Death
-Games
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
4/12 1:15pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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soitscometothis posted:
I'm with EBB on this one. The Terminator and T2 are two very different movies, and that's one of the reasons why I think T2 was so highly thought of - it didn't try to be the first movie only bigger. The Terminator was a romantic thriller, while T2 cut out any attempt at romance and instead was a huge crowd-pleasing action movie, complete with huge set-pieces and comedic moments.
T2 still had a relationship at it's core, as all of Cameron's films do, just in this case instead of lovers you have a father/son relationship (whereas Aliens tackles mother/daughter, Abyss (ex-)husband/(ex-)wife and True Lies is husband/wife to a degree, though I recall there was a focus more on father/daughter that was lost after some scenes were cut).
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Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
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StarDude
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/12 1:44pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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ApolloSmileGirl posted:
DarthBoba posted:
My favorite scene out of Spider-man 2 was the end scene where Harry discovers his father's secret room behind the mirror.
I was soo pumped at that-"Oh! Awesome! quasi-brothers are gonna duke it out, NEXT MOVIE!"
I couldn't have given a rat's ass if Venom was in it or not
Sadly, they had to go with that loser..:p
Completely agree with that. Venom was not necessary and I don't care what Raimi claims, I just know he was pressured into having him in there. It took away from the Sandman character way to much, which even managed to have a decent storyline with what it was given. I'd have been ok with having Eddie Brock in the film, and even the church scene, but they should have left it at that in Spiderman 3. Plus, I'm still urked that they made MJ the initial love interest before Gwen. Wouldn't have minded MJ being in the first two films, but Gwen should have been in the series earlier.
It's also a fact that Ben Kingsley was fitted for a Vulture costume, and then dropped at the last minute.
Here's how much of a cluster**** Spider-Man 3's production was: They didn't know until right before shooting the scene, whether or not to have Mary Jane or Gwen Stacy being held hostage in the car.
Also, originally the storyline dealt with Peter Parker becoming arrogant on his own, without any help from the symbiote.
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soitscometothis
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
4/12 1:46pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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The2ndQuest posted:
T2 still had a relationship at it's core, as all of Cameron's films do, just in this case instead of lovers you have a father/son relationship (whereas Aliens tackles mother/daughter, Abyss (ex-)husband/(ex-)wife and True Lies is husband/wife to a degree, though I recall there was a focus more on father/daughter that was lost after some scenes were cut).
Yeah, T2 had that father and son relationship, and the scene where Sarah Connor stares at the two of them and spells it out to the audience, in voice-over iirc, that Arnie is the father that John has always needed, just in case we were too stupid to work that out on our own.
Don't get me wrong, I like T2 and think it's very entertaining, but it is a big summer blockbuster, not the pared down sci-fi thriller that The Terminator was. The Terminator just connects with me on an emotional level that T2 doesn't.
Also, the original had Michael Biehn as the hero, while T2 was very much an Arnie vehicle, and while I do think he's a great movie star, there are times when I find him a little smug, and more than a little limited in the acting stakes. Despite what you (and Sarah Connor ) say about the relationship between the terminator and John Connor being the core of the film, I tend to think that the film is actually built around "hey kids, look how cool Arnie is", which I don't find so involving.
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/12 4:17pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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StarDude posted:
It's also a fact that Ben Kingsley was fitted for a Vulture costume, and then dropped at the last minute.
Here's how much of a cluster**** Spider-Man 3's production was: They didn't know until right before shooting the scene, whether or not to have Mary Jane or Gwen Stacy being held hostage in the car.
Also, originally the storyline dealt with Peter Parker becoming arrogant on his own, without any help from the symbiote.
Not that I doubt the legitimacy of this but do you have a source for this to quell my curiosity? I honestly hadn't heard much of that.
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StarDude
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/12 4:47pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
- Date Edited:
4/12 4:49pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
StarDude
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My source is my friend at USC, who took a class that was essentially nothing but lectures involved with people making the movie. Sam Raimi was the only person who didn't show.
EDIT: I did find this on wikipedia:
Vulture was originally supposed to be in the Spider-Man 3 movie along side the Sandman, and a single sketch can be seen in The Art of Spider-Man 3, featuring a Vulture whose wings were mounted on his back, rather than attached to his arms. Originally, Vulture and Flint Marko would have been cellmates who escaped together, with Vulture pressuring the more passive Marko into committing crimes (a role partially played by Venom in the film). Actor Sir Ben Kingsley was interviewed for the role before Venom was chosen to be the second villain.[12]
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PerfectCell
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
4/12 5:05pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "Terminator 2"
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soitscometothis posted:
The2ndQuest posted:
T2 still had a relationship at it's core, as all of Cameron's films do, just in this case instead of lovers you have a father/son relationship (whereas Aliens tackles mother/daughter, Abyss (ex-)husband/(ex-)wife and True Lies is husband/wife to a degree, though I recall there was a focus more on father/daughter that was lost after some scenes were cut).
Yeah, T2 had that father and son relationship, and the scene where Sarah Connor stares at the two of them and spells it out to the audience, in voice-over iirc, that Arnie is the father that John has always needed, just in case we were too stupid to work that out on our own.
Don't get me wrong, I like T2 and think it's very entertaining, but it is a big summer blockbuster, not the pared down sci-fi thriller that The Terminator was. The Terminator just connects with me on an emotional level that T2 doesn't.
Also, the original had Michael Biehn as the hero, while T2 was very much an Arnie vehicle, and while I do think he's a great movie star, there are times when I find him a little smug, and more than a little limited in the acting stakes. Despite what you (and Sarah Connor ) say about the relationship between the terminator and John Connor being the core of the film, I tend to think that the film is actually built around "hey kids, look how cool Arnie is", which I don't find so involving.
Actually I think T2 manages to connect emotionally on a much deeper level than T1 does. In T1 everything moves so fast, so little is explained, and both hero and villain are kept so one dimensional that you are never completely drawn in. In T2 it slows down to draw you into the characters and to make sure the main characters have an emotional resonance with you.
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packerfansam
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/12 7:51pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back"
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Jango10 posted:
"The Empire Strikes Back"
Yeah, no explanation necessary. I'm sure we are all familiar with this one.
I never thought I'd see the day on these forums where ESB was brought up and everyone kept talking about Spider-Man 2 or T2. Who knew?
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StarDude
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/12 7:58pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back"
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packerfansam posted:
Jango10 posted:
"The Empire Strikes Back"
Yeah, no explanation necessary. I'm sure we are all familiar with this one.
I never thought I'd see the day on these forums where ESB was brought up and everyone kept talking about Spider-Man 2 or T2. Who knew?
I think this thread is being updated a little to quickly. 
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/12 8:03pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back"
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packerfansam posted:
Jango10 posted:
"The Empire Strikes Back"
Yeah, no explanation necessary. I'm sure we are all familiar with this one.
I never thought I'd see the day on these forums where ESB was brought up and everyone kept talking about Spider-Man 2 or T2. Who knew?
The ESB debate has been done endlessly by Star Wars fans. I am not surprised that they would rather talk about something else, particularly when the other conversations might not be entirely finished yet. Personally I would have liked to stay entirely on Spider-Man 2 but I am obviously biased.
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"Yeah, well my god has a hammer." - Nick Fury You look like you could use a hug: http://boards.theforce.net/your_jedi_council_community/b10008/28325808/p1/?211 Pulsies4Mod '08
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Cream
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/12 9:08pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back"
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ESB > ROTJ > ANH > PREQUELS.
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Barack_Obama
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/12 9:19pm
Subject:
RE: Sequels That Surpass Their Predecessors - Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back"
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I'd easily say The Empire Strikes Back is the best Star Wars film there is and was hands down a better film than the first Star Wars.
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