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Topic:
Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "All Quiet on the Western Front" & "Paths of Glory"
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
5/10 6:48pm
Subject:
Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "All Quiet on the Western Front" & "Paths of Glory"
- Date Edited:
5/27 7:57pm (11 edits total)
Edited By:
Zaz
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From a Blog:
Review: 13 Rule-Breaking Films
For all the creativity and innovation that goes into making (some) Hollywood films, there are also a lot of ideas that get recycled time and time again. I’m not referring to stock characters or the sequalitis that hits multiplexes every summer. I’m talking about the basic building blocks of storytelling that are ingrained in the movie-going experience.
Every once in a while, though, a film comes along that takes an assumption about how American movies are supposed to be made and changes it, sometimes resulting in something truly memorable. Producers who want to make a film that breaks one of the unwritten rules of motion pictures risk a lot – studios might not want to fund the film, theaters might not show it, audiences might not respond to it. The reward for taking the chance, though, is recognition for being a really interesting experiment, or, in some cases, taking your place among the greatest films ever made.
Time Code (2000)
Rule Breaking Idea: Show four frames simultaneously on the screen
When I go to a movie theater, I assume I will sit in a chair. I assume everyone will face the same direction, the lights will be turned off (or at least down), and I will look at a large rectangular screen onto which I will see one series of moving photographs at a time. Mike Figgis’ work, in which he shows the audience four scenes running at the same time, changes one of the basic expectations of watching a movie. Keeping track of different lines of action is an interesting experience, like being a building security guard who must keep tabs on a group of cameras, mentally sorting out the important bits from the mundane. I finished my viewing wondering how much I missed, or if maybe my brain could eventually get used to this kind of viewing, the same way all film viewers use persistence of motion to watch any film.
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
5/10 11:26pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Time Code" (2000)
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"Star Wars: Episode V - The Empire Strikes Back (1980)
Rule Breaking Idea: The good guys lose
In mass-marketed science fiction and fantasy films, from Flash Gordon to Superman to The Lord of the Rings, it’s an assumption that before the end credits roll the heroes will pull out some kind of victory by vanquishing the evil-doers, even if only temporarily. Perhaps that is a necessary assumption in a universe where a few deranged people can do a lot of damage with the firepower science and magic provides. The idea of the hero has been around since humans could tell stories, and in most of them, even if the hero falls, it’s not without accomplishing something worthwhile or going out with a noble flourish.
There would be no such victory for the heroes in George Lucas’ second installment of the Star Wars saga. In the previous episode, the scrappy Rebels scored a major victory against Darth Vader and his minions. In the sequel, the Rebels get their collective backsides handed to them by the Empire, militarily (the “battle” on Hoth wasn’t so much a fight as a delay action to allow the Rebels to run away), personally (Han Solo is betrayed by his friend and becomes a frozen dinner right after acknowledging his love for Leia) and emotionally (Luke Skywalker learns the biggest mass-murderer in the galaxy is his dad). At the end of the film, there’s nothing left to do but pick up the pieces, get a new hand attached, and move on.
By striking this cinematic minor chord, the franchise achieved a degree of resonance and depth it would not have had if it just presented a new way for the Rebels to stick it to the Empire. This kind of pathos was not achieved again until Episode III (Revenge of the Sith) when Anakin crosses over to the Dark Side."
ESB is a bridging movie; I don't think the good guys lose, exactly, as much as there is no resolution. At all. And oh, yeah, Luke screws up big time. Han screws up big time. Lando screws up big time. And Vader discovers that kids are annoying.
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Boba_Fett_2001
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
5/11 7:48am
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back" (1980)
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Wow, so we're only allowed a little over four hours to discuss each movie?
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
5/11 9:05am
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back" (1980)
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You can discuss "Time Code" if you want. But I'd never heard of it.
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The2ndQuest
Title: :
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-Lit Mod of Death
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
5/11 9:40am
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back" (1980)
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I had forgotten all about Timecode- I never got a chance to see it myself, but I remember all the talk and hype about it. Gonna have to check it out one of these days.
ESB definitely changed people's expectations- "The good guys...are losing? They can't lose!"
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K'Kruhk, 140 ABY: "Why haven't I come forth earlier to share my Jedi knowledge with Skywalker?
Well, it's kinda a long story, see, I had this freaking sweet hat..."
"If I don't die, I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth." - Drew_Atreides
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darthdrago
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
5/11 10:37am
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back" (1980)
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ESB: good choice for a rule-breaker. I remember watching this in the theater when I was a child and thinking: wait, the movie's ending??? Will they get Han back? "I am your father"??? Mind-blowing stuff to consider in the pre-internet, pre-AICN, pre-blog days. Those were some of the longest three years ever until ROTJ.
But Lucas/Kershner really handled the cliffhanger quality excellently. It's funny; Western filmgoers still seem pre-programmed to expect the "Hollywood ending", even after ESB helped show another way. I remember hearing that Back to the Future II didn't get such a warm welcome when it premiered in 1989 (November '89, IIRC). In the audio commentary for II, the film's producers claim that this was because the audience was expecting a "proper" (Hollywood) resolution to Doc's getting zapped back to 1885 by the end of II, only to have the film abruptly end, clearly showing the story's resolution to be taken care of in III. I thought II was a good enough film, but maybe all the complex time-travel mumbo jumbo turned off some folks & critics. Besides, III was released not even a year later in the summer of 1990, so it's not like the public had to wait like they did for ROTJ. Just goes to show, that even though ESB broke the good-guys-always-win rule, it's still not a readily accepted convention by moviegoers. It really does matter how it's handled.
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
5/12 5:52pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "The Empire Strikes Back" (1980)
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Next: "Russian Ark" (2002)
"Rule Breaking Idea: Instead of making a film with 20-30 scenes, make a film with one 90-minute scene, shot in a continuous take.
Like Time Code, this film changes a fundamental part of movie-watching. Shot at the Russian State Hermitage Museum, the film is a triumph if only because it managed to pull off a logistical nightmare. Hundreds of cast and crew have to get everything right at one time, or it’s back to square one. As a viewing experience, I found the film a bit exhausting. I guess I’m just used to breaks in the narrative that cutting from scene to scene provides. Since it’s not possible to jump from one place or time period to another using this technique, the storytelling range is automatically restricted as well. It’s a beautiful film and well worth the time to see, but I’m not sure this technique would work on a regular basis."
I beg to differ: this was famously tried by Hitchcock in two films: "Rope" and "Under Capricorn" in the late 40's. It didn't work, but he did try it.
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darth_frared
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:24am
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Russian Ark"
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i quite liked the bits that i've seen but as the reviewer said, it's exhausting.
i fell for the man in the tailcoat 
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illegalise stupidity.
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:44am
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Russian Ark"
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Reservoir Dogs (1992)
Rule Breaking Idea: Make a heist film that shows everything except the heist
"There’s nothing quite like watching a detailed, well-planned heist unfold on film. Criminal acts form the centerpiece of a lot of entertaining movies. (see: Heist, The Killing, Ocean’s Eleven, Rififi, Sexy Beast, The Score, The Sting)
In Reservoir Dogs, Quentin Tarantino’s adapted story of a bank robbery gone very wrong, things proceed from a different angle. The audience gets to see the planning, the botched getaway, and the brutal, bloody aftermath as the crooks try to figure out what to do next. The one thing that’s missing is a depiction of the actual heist. And that’s okay. A well-written film can go anywhere, and Tarantino’s writing talent, combined with a top-notch cast, is such that two people talking to each other can be an entertaining as an action sequence."
Haven't seen it.
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Spiderfan
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:46am
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Russian Ark"
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Zaz posted:
Next: "Russian Ark" (2002)
"Rule Breaking Idea: Instead of making a film with 20-30 scenes, make a film with one 90-minute scene, shot in a continuous take.
Like Time Code, this film changes a fundamental part of movie-watching. Shot at the Russian State Hermitage Museum, the film is a triumph if only because it managed to pull off a logistical nightmare. Hundreds of cast and crew have to get everything right at one time, or it’s back to square one. As a viewing experience, I found the film a bit exhausting. I guess I’m just used to breaks in the narrative that cutting from scene to scene provides. Since it’s not possible to jump from one place or time period to another using this technique, the storytelling range is automatically restricted as well. It’s a beautiful film and well worth the time to see, but I’m not sure this technique would work on a regular basis."
I beg to differ: this was famously tried by Hitchcock in two films: "Rope" and "Under Capricorn" in the late 40's. It didn't work, but he did try it.
IIRC Rope and Russain Ark are a little different. Same idea but different execution.
Hitchcock's attempt in Rope (can't speak for Under Capricorn) was to make you believe they were long takes by creatively hiding the cuts using camera movement and the stage to create cut points (many of those techniques have become common place these days).
To the best of my knowledge Russain Ark really was one endless take using an HD steadicam that stored uncompressed footage directly to a harddrive (capable of storing 100 uncompressed minutes) capturing the full movie in real time.
Hitchcock had to deal with the limitations of reels that could only hold so much footage (On average I think 10-12 minutes roughly) where as Russian Ark had the fortune of having the capacity to store the full 90+ minute running time without having to stop to change the Camera Mag.
Both were interesting experiments but can be difficult for some common movie goers whose vissual language has been adjusted to deal with constant cuts and edits and changes to context...too many people see to lose interest. Rope does have the fortune though of playing out more like a stage play than an actual film, so its a little easier to bear.
As for Timecode I have been meaning to see this one for a while because I am always interested in strange experiments in editing styles and techniques. However thanks to 24 and the over use of the Picture in Picture technique at work, I have grown incredibly weary of the style.
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rogue_wookiee
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:43pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Reservoir Dogs"
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Reservoir Dogs is brilliant Zaz. It's been ripped off a great deal, but nothing can compare. The non-linear story, the way it is made up mostly of scenes that were written for character development, but would be cut for pacing in a regular heist film. Utter genius and definitely a rule-breaker.
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We are taxed without consent.
Inflation is essentially theft.
The government is infringing on our civil liberties.
Think about it for a second.
Didn't we already have a revolution over issues like these?
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
5/13 4:59pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Reservoir Dogs"
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I know I need to see it.
Re: "Rope"; thanks for that extremely illuminating explanation, Spiderfan; now I understand the difference.
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Hammurabi
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 5:35pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Reservoir Dogs"
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Actually, long takes are kinda 'in' at the moment, at least at the arthouse - highly visible in films like Children of Men and Atonement. However, few of these extended takes actually consist of one shot. Most use techniques to get around that issue.
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Zaz
Title: Manager:
The Amphitheatre
Registered:
Oct '98
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Date Posted:
5/13 8:38pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Reservoir Dogs"
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Next: "Requiem for a Dream" (2000)
Rule Breaking Idea: Make a truly anti-drug film
"Drug and alcohol abuse have been subjects for films for years. Movies like The Days of Wine and Roses, Leaving Las Vegas, The Lost Weekend, The Man with the Golden Arm, and Trainspotting provide ample opportunities for actors to exercise their dramatic chops with scenes of decadence and ecstasy followed by anguish and regret. Drinking and drugging, while destructive, are also presented as poignant, dramatic, and even humorous and cool in certain aspects.
Much more than these films, Darren Aronofsky’s movie presents drug use as first and foremost scary, depressing, and gross. The main characters are young and pretty the way most young people are pretty. What they are not, though, is smart, interesting, glamorous, lucky, or headed anywhere. Their experiences with drug use are sad, brutal, and not fun in any reasonable way. The only joy they seem to get from the drugs they use comes from temporarily not having to look at their crappy lives, which also holds for one character’s mother, who is falling apart from abusing diet pills. In this film, the audience gets to watch four people destroy their lives without a hip soundtrack, snappy one-liners, or a happy ending to cushion the blow. I still have a hard time watching this harrowing film, but it’s worth the effort."
This film is the source of many an argument over whether it's good or not; but few deny it has a punch.
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General_Dodonna
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
5/13 9:01pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Requiem for a Dream" (2000)
- Date Edited:
5/13 9:02pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
General_Dodonna
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Wait...how are any of these "rule-breaking"? Abel Gance was using multiple frames simultaneously over eighty years ago in films like LA ROUE and NAPOLEON. Good guys losing? How did EMPIRE break new ground? It merely served a function - acting as a cliffhanger before a final episode. Rule-breaking? Really? Ludicrous when you consider that it's simply a continuation of Lucas's ongoing homage to the Flash Gordon serials.
RUSSIAN ARK was a ground-breaking film (although not a rule-breaking one, for the reasons that Zaz illuminates), but there's a reason why the film has not been imitated since.
RESERVOIR DOGS didn't show the heist, true. But then, it's clear from the outset that the film is not about the heist. Likewise, its much lauded non-linear structure is clearly lifted from Kubrick's THE KILLING.
I don't even understand the last one. That's one hell of a stretch for a "rule."
Suffice it to say, this character is clearly just another blogger for whom cinema did not exist before he was born.
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"A film is difficult to explain because it is easy to understand." - Christian Metz
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/13 11:37pm
Subject:
RE: 13 Rule-Breaking Films: Now Disc. "Requiem for a Dream" (2000)
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Zaz posted:
Next: "Requiem for a Dream" (2000)
Rule Breaking Idea: Make a truly anti-drug film
"Drug and alcohol abuse have been subjects for films for years. Movies like The Days of Wine and Roses, Leaving Las Vegas, The Lost Weekend, The Man with the Golden Arm, and Trainspotting provide ample opportunities for actors to exercise their dramatic chops with scenes of decadence and ecstasy followed by anguish and regret. Drinking and drugging, while destructive, are also presented as poignant, dramatic, and even humorous and cool in certain aspects.
Much more than these films, Darren Aronofsky’s movie presents drug use as first and foremost scary, depressing, and gross. The main characters are young and pretty the way most young people are pretty. What they are not, though, is smart, interesting, glamorous, lucky, or headed anywhere. Their experiences with drug use are sad, brutal, and not fun in any reasonable way. The only joy they seem to get from the drugs they use comes from temporarily not having to look at their crappy lives, which also holds for one character’s mother, who is falling apart from abusing diet pills. In this film, the audience gets to watch four people destroy their lives without a hip soundtrack, snappy one-liners, or a happy ending to cushion the blow. I still have a hard time watching this harrowing film, but it’s worth the effort."
This film is the source of many an argument over whether it's good or not; but few deny it has a punch.
I loved it and enjoyed how hard hitting it was.
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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