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Jades Fire Registered: Nov '98	Date Posted: 6/28/02 1:30pm Subject: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books - Date Edited: 10/3/03 11:21am (3 edits total) Edited By: dp4m
	Welcome to Vorkosigan House where we can discuss all of Lois McMaster Bujold's books. Where we can discuss the SciFi books of the Miles Vorkosigan adventures, including Count Aral, Countess Cordelia, Emperor Gregor, cousin Ivan, etc. Where we can also discuss Bujold's other novels, including her most recent fantasy novel The Curse of Chalion, which was nominated for a Hugo for best novel. I hope to see other Bujold fans show up. Whether you like SciFi or Fantasy, she has something for you. She's not a big name, but hopefully she's got a following on the boards. ==================== I am just getting into the Vorkosigan books myself. I started off with Cordelia's Honor (the combination of Shards of Honor and Barrayar), The Warrior's Apprentice, The Vor Game, and Cetaganda. Soon I will be reading Borders of Infinity. I've enjoyed most of the Vor books. I also read The Curse of Chalion, which I felt was an excellent book. It was tighly plotted without any plot holes. There was one plot hole that I could forsee as I was reading and Bujold wrapped it up nicely. Edit: Mistake on my part. Reopening. Sorry for the inconvenience. -----signature----- "Vanity working on a weak head, produces every sort of mischief." -- Jane Austen
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Dewlanna Solo Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 6/30/02 11:24am Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books - Date Edited: 6/30/02 11:27am (1 edits total) Edited By: Dewlanna Solo
	I've been reading the Vor books for a while. I love Cordelia's Honor. I keep rereading it. A book that is still interesting and attention holding the 3rd or 4th time you read it is a very well written book. I've read most of the other Vor books. I'm waiting for a friend to finish A Civil Campaign. I think that is the latest of the Vor books. I've also read Ethan of Athos, which takes place in the Vor universe, it was a lot of fun to read. The Curse of Chalion was wonderful. I'm not much of a fantasy fan, but this book was terrific. As JF said, there are no plot holes, but what impressed me most was the 'reasonableness' of the fantasy element. In the first half of the book, I felt as if I was reading a medieval historical novel set in some non-European country whose religion and mythology I wasn't familiar with, not a fantasy set in another universe with different rules. And even then (after one event in the middle of the book that couldn't have happened on this Earth) the 'fantastic' element was really secondary to normal human responses. -----signature----- Those who will not follow are doomed to lead.
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Zaz Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre Registered: Oct '98	Date Posted: 7/2/02 7:59pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	Just finished "Diplomatic Immunity."
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Dewlanna Solo Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/5/02 5:34am Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	Good to see this tread back. Thanks Kadue Now we need to get some traffic here. For anyone who hasn't read any Bujold, there is a short story at Baen's Free Library just click on 'Authors' then Lois McMaster Bujold. There is a short biography, then you'll be given a drop down menu of format options. I usually just right click on the story's title and 'open in new window' or open the Rich Text Format Zip choosing to 'open this file from its current location' Both seem to work quiet well with my ancient computer. The story available at Baen's free library is The Mountains of Mourning. This story is published in book form as part of The Borders of Infinity. It is an early Miles Vorkosigan tale. It doesn't have any real spoilers for the 'Miles' books, but it is a bit of a spoiler for Cordelia's Honor (but only if you have never even looked at the back covers --or even the titles of the rest of Bujold's Vor books.) The story is an excellent example of Bujold's style. It is one of my favorite Miles stories. -----signature----- Those who will not follow are doomed to lead.
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B.J. Zanzibar Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 7/5/02 7:34pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	Bujold rocks! Nevertheless, I just finished Memory and was somewhat traumatized by its implications. Sure, Miles has a very cool job now, but I'm totally with Quinn on preferring his Betan side. The Barrayarans need to have their entire social system boiled down and rebuilt from scratch. Somehow, I doubt that's going to happen, and being an Imperial Auditor and all, Miles will undoubtedly be spending even more time on that hellish dirtball. So, if you found yourself in Bujold's Nexus, where would you end up? For me, it would either be Beta Colony or Escobar. Probably Escobar, since it has a real ecosystem. -----signature----- Sanity is relative. For some of us it's just a distant cousin.
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Zaz Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre Registered: Oct '98	Date Posted: 7/7/02 7:53pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	Miles seems to pick up a physical disability with each book.
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Dewlanna Solo Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/7/02 8:13pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	Really? I found that his disabilities seemed to be less of a problem as time goes on. -----signature----- Those who will not follow are doomed to lead.
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B.J. Zanzibar Registered: Sep '99	Date Posted: 7/8/02 4:23am Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books - Date Edited: 7/8/02 4:24am (1 edits total) Edited By: B.J. Zanzibar
	Well, by the end of Memory he's had all his bones replaced, but now he's got that seizure problem left over from Mirror Dance. Of course, I've still got three books left to go before I'm current. -----signature----- Sanity is relative. For some of us it's just a distant cousin.
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Former Grunt Registered: Mar '00	Date Posted: 7/8/02 6:36am Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	I'm much happier with Miles as an auditor. I always found his escapades as the little admiral absurd. They stretched my suspension of disbelief way past the breaking point. As a mystery solver, he is much more fun. BTW, I wouldn't mind living on his home planet. Militaristic societies suit me just fine. Perhaps Cetaganda wouldn't be too bad either, providing I was Ghem.
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Dewlanna Solo Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/8/02 7:31am Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	I like Miles when he's serious, whether he is Vorkosigan or Neismith. Borders of Infinity (the short story that the collection is named for) is as enjoyable as Memory or Cetagania. I especially enjoyed Mirror Dance. As for where in the Vor universe I'd like to live, Sergyar would be a good choice for me. -----signature----- Those who will not follow are doomed to lead.
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Jades Fire Registered: Nov '98	Date Posted: 7/8/02 11:03am Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	I had wanted to post this last week, but our thread had been locked. Now that it is back up, I'll post it. I found the The Curse of Chalion to be a very good book. A friend, I believe it was Dewlanna, told me that the real "Curse" is the book itself; it is so engaging that you can't put it down and you stay up too late reading. Always a good thing in a book, if not good for your sleep patterns. It is more of a more fantasy-ish or historical fiction book than the Vorkosigan books. It is kind of Arthurian, almost like a Middle Ages English tale. The story is about a man who returns from a long war and captivity to enter into employment with the royal household of his youth. He gets more involved in the affairs and intrigue of the household and the larger ruling household/family than he ever bargained for. Bujold is very good at world-building. She set up her world and introduced the aspects of the fictional setting in a very believeable manner. As I mentioned above, it had a feeling of a historical novel set in the Middle Ages, not Middle Earth and not actually Middle Ages Earth, so you can get quickly into the setting. She introduced a believeable religion for the people, and not once did I notice an instance where she violated that religion. The book isn't about religion nor does it center on the religion, but it does play a role in the plot. The characters are all very believeable. The hero isn't perfect; the villians aren't cardboard cutouts; the supporting characters all fill their roles very nicely. Many characters or plotlines that are mentioned early on are brought back into the plot as the book progresses, and not forgotten as sometimes happens. This book doesn't have any extraneous material. I hope that other Fantasy or SciFi readers on the JC give Bujold a try. A couple of people sung her praises to me, and now I'm joining in their chorus. Diplomatic Immunity, the book Zaz mentioned, is the latest Vorkosigan book. It is out in hardcover right now. -----signature----- "Vanity working on a weak head, produces every sort of mischief." -- Jane Austen
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Zaz Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre Registered: Oct '98	Date Posted: 7/8/02 7:59pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	I guess "Mirror Dance" is the best Vorkosigan novel, if you look at it objectively. However, I like Miles humourous, not serious, so "A Civil Campaign" is my favorite. The plot's as tight as a drum, and after years of sloppily plotted SW books (KJA and Stackpole being the principal offenders, though they could all plead guilty), I sure enjoyed that. The dinner party scene is a classic, and so is Cordelia vs. butter (the baba scene). The piece of furniture she makes Kou and Drou sit on is straight out of "Barrayar". This is why one author should write a story arc.
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Dewlanna Solo Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/8/02 8:25pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books - Date Edited: 7/8/02 8:41pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Dewlanna Solo
	Zaz, don't give me any spoilers for A Civil Campaign I haven't read it yet. A friend is sending it to me, I'll start reading it as soon as the US postal service gets it to me, but until then, I don't want to know what happens. This brings up a suggestion. Should we post spoiler warnings if what we are going to say about a Bujold book would be a spoiler either for that book or for the books that come before it? So far, everthing said has been sort of general and no more spoilerific than the blurbs on the backs of the novels (which I rarely read, I like to go into a story 'cold'). However. I can see as the discussion grows, we will want to discuss things that could be spoilers for folks who haven't read as far as the rest of us. It would be polite to future Bujold readers to warn them that when we discuss Mirror Dance that there will be spoilers for Brother's in Arms BTW, some one should post a list of the Vor books in order. If no one else has the time, I'll try to do that Tuesday or Wednesday. -----signature----- Those who will not follow are doomed to lead.
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Zaz Title: Manager, The Ampitheatre Registered: Oct '98	Date Posted: 7/8/02 8:59pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	Oops, sorry. The books are: Shards of Honour Barrayar The Warrior's Apprentice The Vor Game Cetaganda Ethan of Andros The Borders of Infinity Brothers in Arms Mirror Dance Memory Komar A Civil Campaign Diplomatic Immunity
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Jades Fire Registered: Nov '98	Date Posted: 7/18/02 11:21am Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	Gosh, I don't know where I would chose to live in the Bujold Nexus. I haven't read enough books to make a really informed decision yet. If I had to choose now, I'd probably got with either Beta Colony or Escobar. Barrayar is a temptation as it is a planet with an ecosystem and four seasons, but the militaristic society would be a turn-off. Cetaganda would be out because of the rigid class system. Jackson's Whole sounds like the Wild West and that's not particularly appealing to me. When I finish reading "Fellowship of the Rings", I will jump back into the Vor books and read Brother's in Arms and Mirror Dance. By the way, if you didn't already know about it, there is the L.M. Bujold Home Page website called The Bujold Nexus at www.dendarii.com. It's where I go for the latest information. -----signature----- "Vanity working on a weak head, produces every sort of mischief." -- Jane Austen
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Dewlanna Solo Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 7/18/02 3:22pm Subject: RE: Vorkosigan House: A discussion thread for Lois McMaster Bujold's books
	I just finished A Civil Campaign What a wonderful book! I was laughing one minute and crying the next. I can't wait for Diplomatic Immunity I also just read Spirit Ring. I'll start with my usual disclaimer: ‘I really don't like fantasy, but....' This was a very enjoyable book, hard to put down. The magic/fantasy element is very strong in this one (unlike The Curse of Chalion) but it all "fit." There is a real story about real people that drives the book, unlike all too many fantasy books where the main ‘thing' is the fantasy and the story exists only to give the magic a vehicle. I'm beginning to think that this distinction is what separates the fantasy books I like from the ones I don't. I have no patience with spells and magic and "pretend" so any book that depends on this element, that derives its reason for being from fantasy, is going to be a major chore for me to read. But when there is a great story that is supplemented (or even supported) with the metaphysical, I enjoy myself. At the moment I'm reading Bujold's Falling Free and again, she has me hooked. Bujold has a knack for creating whole new worlds. She thinks of everything, the tiny details make her stories' settings so real, the perfect place for her characters to play out their age-old stories. Bujold's heros are understated (well, maybe not Miles, but...well, he's Miles so it's OK) and the villains are truly villainous mostly just by being the worst that ordinary people can be. In other words, she doesn't need over-top-bad guys like the Vong or assorted ogres, hobgoblins, Dark Mages, or vampires. Garden variety jerks, egotists, petty dictators and bumbling fools work nicely. With very few exceptions, I've met these antagonists in real life. Same for the ‘heros.' They are, for the most part, ordinary people put in extraordinary circumstances, doing what we all would hope we could do in the same situations. The ‘realness' of the good guys and bad guys, set in Bujold's wondrous worlds, wending their way thru her scintillating plots all add up to some very enjoyable hours of entertainment. -----signature----- Those who will not follow are doomed to lead.
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