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Author	Topic: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
KenKenobi Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/20 5:48pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 10/20 5:52pm (1 edits total) Edited By: KenKenobi
	Grimby the Hutt posted: The Broncos beat the Bengals on a lucky play, but they did outplay them for most of the game, and they did make them look worse than they really were. Palmer was picked off twice, Benson (currently the #3 rusher in the NFL, BTW) only had 76 yards, Ochocinco didn't look very good despite lining up on the other side of the field from Champ Bailey Child please, Esteban led that game in receiving yards, even despite Stokley's miracle grab, and his 5 catches were more than anyone in a Denver uniform. If you didn't think he looked very good, you can shut the front door. Also, bringing up "only" 76 yards for the #3 rusher in Benson is incredibly misleading. He's the #3 rusher BECAUSE of consistent outings like against the Broncos-- if anybody gets credit for stopping the Bensman it's Houston (44 yds), because even the Browns "only" allowed him 74 on the ground. But what you really neglect is the fact that he put up by far his highest receiving total on Denver, and actually had 108 yds from scrimmage. The Broncos hardly outplayed anyone. Now against the Pats and San Diego? Sure. Grimby the Hutt posted: I don't think I'm exaggerating anything. You might not think Cleveland is any good because of their record and the way they played this past Sunday, but that's only part of the story. You're right. It's also the way they played the Sunday before...and the Sunday before that...and the Sunday before that... I mean, honestly, you're trying to defend the Cleveland Browns? I'm from Ohio and I can't even do that. EDIT: In other news, I want in on this Taco Bell Royal Treatment. I'm sure Ocho could come up with something. -----signature----- Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last.
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Grimby the Hutt Title: JC Head Admin Fan Design/RMFF Webmaster Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 10/20 10:34pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	KenKenobi posted: Child please, Esteban led that game in receiving yards, even despite Stokley's miracle grab, and his 5 catches were more than anyone in a Denver uniform. If you didn't think he looked very good, you can shut the front door. And those stats resulted in how many points exactly? The biggest play of the day involving Chad Eightfive was Bailey knocking his helmet off after tipping a pass that was then intercepted. KenKenobi posted: Also, bringing up "only" 76 yards for the #3 rusher in Benson is incredibly misleading. He's the #3 rusher BECAUSE of consistent outings like against the Broncos-- if anybody gets credit for stopping the Bensman it's Houston (44 yds), because even the Browns "only" allowed him 74 on the ground. But what you really neglect is the fact that he put up by far his highest receiving total on Denver, and actually had 108 yds from scrimmage. Again, exactly how many points did those monster stats result in? Averaging 3.6 yards per carry is average at best. -----signature----- "Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
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KenKenobi Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/21 12:05am Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 10/21 12:29am (4 edits total) Edited By: KenKenobi
	Grimby the Hutt posted: And those stats resulted in how many points exactly? The biggest play of the day involving Chad Eightfive was Bailey knocking his helmet off after tipping a pass that was then intercepted. Child please. Your attempt at a point was that Esteban didn't look very good against Champ, trying to prove that your Broncs outplayed the Bengals. When in fact 85 caught more passes, for more yards, than any of your Broncs receivers managed against any Bengals corner. In other words, Ochocinco made your receivers kiss da baby. Take away that other play-off-a-tip and it's straight embarrassing. Grimby the Hutt posted: Again, exactly how many points did those monster stats result in? Averaging 3.6 yards per carry is average at best. The 7 with 38 seconds to go in the game that put them over those field goals, leaving Denver with only a miracle shot at winning? Which is again beside the point, because again the attempt at one was that Denver outplayed Cincy proven in their stoppage of the #3 rusher in Benson. When in fact the Browns (who despite your proclamations of worth have allowed the third most rushing yards, and second most rushing TD's) actually performed better than they did against him. While their RB's struggled to do half of what he did. The Broncos didn't outplay them. To echo your own sentiments, what made Denver look legit was all their success after that win-- dominating teams they should have and refusing to back down against the others. -----signature----- Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last.
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darth_gersh Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 10/21 10:11am Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	The Bronco's didn't exactly look that great vs Dallas at home by the way. At least not like a Super Bowl team. -----signature----- Tuggle, Knuckles, and Vinny oh my. "All things truly wicked start from innocence". Ernest Hemingway Save the Great White Sharks! If not here, I'm hiking/camping. You are a newbie I am sexbie.
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Grimby the Hutt Title: JC Head Admin Fan Design/RMFF Webmaster Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 10/21 10:55am Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 10/21 10:59am (1 edits total) Edited By: Grimby the Hutt
	My point about Chad was that he didn't look good despite NOT playing against Champ for most of the game. Yes, 89 yards is respectable, and yes, he had the best stats of any receiver that day. The Bengals had a decent game, and I'm not saying they didn't. But it is still their worst offensive performance this season in terms of total offense, outside of their game against Pittsburgh, and by far their worst performance in terms of scoring. The Bengals were supposed to roll on offense, and Benson was expected to have one of the best games of his career against a "horrible" defense, but that didn't happen. And as for that final play, the only reason it even happened was because all the defenders in the area either stopped playing after the pass was tipped in the air, or went for the big hit on Marshall. There's no way a wide receiver should be standing there all alone watching the ball drop into his arms, and there's certainly no way he should have had a wide open field in front of him after catching it. The Bengals D faltered when it mattered most, and yes they were outplayed on that play. BTW, do all Bengals fans walk around saying "child, please" all the time? Must get pretty old after a while. Edit: Gersh, I'm pretty sure the Cowboys went up 10-0 in the first quarter and then never scored again. -----signature----- "Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
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KenKenobi Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/21 5:25pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 10/21 5:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: KenKenobi
	Grimby posted: BTW, do all Bengals fans walk around saying "child, please" all the time? Must get pretty old after a while. Only when talking about Chaddy. I'm not saying the Bengals played a perfect game-- hardly, they probably could've won by not taking all game to score. But compared to their opponent, they did play better, because if Ocho and Benson weren't "rolling," then the Broncos were nearly at a dead stop. And come on, really? The Bengals D didn't "falter when it mattered most" or get "outplayed on that play." The ball left Orton's hand and the safeties responded accordingly-- Hall tipped it, Williams was already wrapping up Marshall as Hall descended, and Crocker knocked him to the ground right as the ball was going into the air. There was absolutely no coverage breakdown, and the safeties responded immediately to the ball-- which is their job. It's not their job to anticipate an absolute freak occurrence, let alone fail to apply help against the intended play in doing so. That was a lucky play that neither team saw coming, and certainly didn't plan for (if that's even possible). Now, that said... all the luck in the universe and a may the Force be with you in your upcoming games. Go Broncos! At least go 8-0! But seriously, back to your original point, fact is you won that game, and have played admirably as an underdog since, which I think has to be respected. And if the Broncs keep playing with that mentality, other teams can kiss da baby. -----signature----- Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last.
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Grimby the Hutt Title: JC Head Admin Fan Design/RMFF Webmaster Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 10/21 6:30pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	I really have to disagree with you about the defense on that play. Roy Williams was the deep safety, but instead of staying back and keeping his position, he decided to jump into the play and go for the big hit on Marshall. So what you ended up with was one defensive back playing the tip drill, and the other two going for the tackle. Had Williams stayed in position, he would have been there to swat the ball away from Stokley, make an interception, or at least have been in position to make a tackle. Instead, two guys chased after Stokley down the field, and since nobody else bothered to run (and the linebacker chasing him down gave up around the 20, he was able to stall for a good 5-6 seconds before going into the end zone. An extremely lucky break for the Broncos, sure. But playing smart defense would have prevented it from ever happening. -----signature----- "Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
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darth_gersh Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 10/21 7:36pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	The Denver offense is suspect. Averaging 22.2 pts for game will not get it done all year. They are a suprising good team, but there is plenty of football left this year. -----signature----- Tuggle, Knuckles, and Vinny oh my. "All things truly wicked start from innocence". Ernest Hemingway Save the Great White Sharks! If not here, I'm hiking/camping. You are a newbie I am sexbie.
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KenKenobi Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/21 10:48pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 10/21 10:51pm (1 edits total) Edited By: KenKenobi
	Grimby: Yeah, no. I can't believe you're still trying to argue this. First of all, the Bengals were playing Cover 2, and so saying that Williams should have "stayed back and kept his position" is nothing short of laughable. Williams going in for the "big hit" is what he should have done-- the safeties are supposed to fly off the seam into the receivers, by design. The pass was intended for Marshall, and as soon as Leon Hall leapt, Williams was right where he should've been, in Marshall's face. Second of all, if the Bengals hadn't played Cover 2, and Williams had been designated to stay deep in prevent, it wouldn't have made any sense. It was a 7-6 game, all you needed was a field goal to win and Prater had already gone deep twice. Giving up a game-winning field goal because you kept a man deep expecting a crazy tip drill is absolutely ridiculous, and the complete opposite of "smart defense." As a side note, Dhani Jones was a good 15-20 feet away from the catch even while he was running toward it. I don't like the fact that he didn't follow through and allowed that extra time-wasting run, but that's probably because he's from Michigan. gersh: Agreed. It'd be nice if that got it done against the Ravens and Pittsburgh these next few though. -----signature----- Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last.
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Grimby the Hutt Title: JC Head Admin Fan Design/RMFF Webmaster Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 10/22 10:49am Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	Say what you want to Ken, but in cover 2, the deep safeties are never supposed to let an offensive player get behind them. They're the last line of defense. Of course they're supposed to jump up and make the tackle, but why would Williams be doing that without even looking to see if the ball was caught or tipped? He ran in there like his only responsibility was to put a hit on Marshall. The guy covering Marshall was in front of him and should have knocked the ball down, and the guy covering Stokely was running at Marshall as well. At the very least, one of them should have been aware of the tipped ball and reacted accordingly. Instead, both of them swarmed Marshall and left a wide receiver completely alone to catch the tip. If the safeties are going to swarm the receiver and not pay attention to whether the pass was tipped or not, then the corner should know not to tip the ball up in the air like that. Either way, it's bad defense. -----signature----- "Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
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KenKenobi Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 10/22 5:14pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread - Date Edited: 10/22 5:17pm (1 edits total) Edited By: KenKenobi
	Uh, did you even read what I posted? It's the safety's job to take out the intended the receiver in Cover 2, not to babysit the backfield like it's Prevent D. You attempted to heap blame on Roy Williams for blowing an assignment, obviously unaware of what his actual assignment was, and what the implications would have been had his assignment been what you thought was best (Prevent would have allowed short gains for a winning field goal try, and that would be bad defense). All the sudden trying to shift blame on Crocker now just shows how much you're reaching for something here. Then again you did try to argue that the Browns aren't terrible, so maybe this has all just been some amusing sarcasm. -----signature----- Though this is the end of the age of heroes, it has saved its best for last.
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Grimby the Hutt Title: JC Head Admin Fan Design/RMFF Webmaster Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 10/22 10:56pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	lol, well I guess I'm done trying to get you to see my point. I didn't say Williams should have been playing 20 yards off waiting for the offense to come to him, I said he isn't supposed to let anyone get behind him. Of course he's supposed make the tackle in that situation. But first he should make sure the ball actually makes it to the receiver. He clearly didn't do that, and didn't even bother to notice what his corner was doing before shooting in for the hit. All he had to do was move in on Marshall, keep an eye on the ball, and attempt to make a play on it. Had he done that, he would have seen the tip and would have been in position somewhere in between Marshall and Stokely with a chance to knock it away. You can clearly see on the replay that he isn't even looking for the ball when he moves in for the hit, which he's been known to do in the past. -----signature----- "Ratio Tile, the wish power are together with you." - Allah Gold, Backstroke of the West
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s65horsey Title: EUC and Arena Moddess SW RSA Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 10/25 1:05pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	I heard that Reggie Wayne is out with an injury. Does anyone have any more information? I don't have that game this weekend. -----signature----- Corran Horn is mine. Get used to it. One of Hammer's Angels Has reverted to being a 14 yr old. YAY JOBROS and TWILIGHT! Just laugh at it.
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Trimaj Registered: Jun '05	Date Posted: 10/25 1:15pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	he strained his groin. i get the feeling he could have gone back in had it been needed. -----signature----- Love comes in spurts. ~ Murphy's 51st Law of Sex Sex is one of the nine reasons for reincarnation; the other eight are unimportant.~ Murphy's 53rd Law of Sex
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darth_gersh Registered: Feb '05	Date Posted: 10/25 5:19pm Subject: The (un)Official NFL Discussion Thread
	DALLAS! -----signature----- Tuggle, Knuckles, and Vinny oh my. "All things truly wicked start from innocence". Ernest Hemingway Save the Great White Sharks! If not here, I'm hiking/camping. You are a newbie I am sexbie.
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