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Author	Topic: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
sdj Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 12:56pm Subject: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 7/27 8:33pm (5 edits total) Edited By: Strilo
	Reloaded is being called the Phantom Menace of the Matrix series. A film that is going to divide the fanbase forever. Now another series that was considered the pinnacle of a movie making era has been turned into a fan franchise that only certain people will read into more deeply and enjoy. Reloaded is definetly not a film for everyone as was the case with films like The Phantom Menace. The film serves the purpose it's creators wanted to serve but the series will never be the same. Anyone agree? -----signature----- The circle is complete.
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Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 1:06pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 1:20pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Durwood
	They wish RELOADED was as good as THE PHANTOM MENACE. -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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CeeJay Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 5/18/03 1:12pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 1:17pm (3 edits total) Edited By: CeeJay
	No - Matrix Reloaded is no way as unsatisfying as TPM nor does it share any of its bad qualities. Unlike TPM poor initialization of the PT, the Matrix.R is a mid section film of a trilogy and it plays pretty well as one. The main character amongst others has grown in stature and abilty from his initial outing in the first film, the world outside the Matrix and the state of the humans involved are much more explored and the riddle of the function of the Matrix is further unravelled. All this done whilst still taking time to explore the various villians, their origins and their purpose far more in-depth than anything in TPM let alone the whole PT so far. Further more, the film manages to end on a proper cliffhanger much more in vein of the Republican serials SW is based on thus doing it's job as an episode a whole lot better than TPM and many other SW films apart from TESB which runs very much alongside similar lines of Matrix.R. I'll tell you something else before this thread gets locked (I'm guessing here) the Matrix.R will have me going back to see more in terms of visuals and drama than TPM ever did and it'sll get more play in my DVD aswell. It was not the second coming many expected it to be but it was damn good all the same and just as enjoyable as its predecessor while pulling a few suprises of its own! Stuff of dreams is what it is, not nightmares like TPM! Matrix Fans don't have their Phantom Menace mate, in all honesty, The Matrix just claimed one more SW fan! -----signature----- There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
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sdj Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 1:17pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 1:22pm (1 edits total) Edited By: sdj
	I'm not questioning the quality of either film in this thread. That's not the point of it. But I've been to websites, and spoken with other fans and it is VERY mixed. So to me it definetly echoes of another time in 99. Some fans of the original Matrix are looking at some of the revelations the same way midichlorians were viewed. I'm drawing a parallel which could create interesting discussion and help us understand the view of others in regards to TPM. It's not a lets bash the Matrix thread. I'm actually hoping it will help TPM retractors and defenders understand each other more...by examining a similar situation. -----signature----- The circle is complete.
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spring_warm Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 5/18/03 1:24pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	Its comfortable to know that the starwars fan base isnt the only one to take a great film and rip it to shreads cause it didnt live up to the fan boy hype -----signature----- LMAO @ spring_warm -Tempestjonny (LOL at winter_chili! Good one- DarthNoll LMAO @ Winter_Chilli - Ryan_W LOL Drippy_Zero and Winter Chill! - WhisperingDeath I AM WINTER_CHILI
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Django211 Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 5/18/03 1:27pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	I think the original film came at the right point in time. It was the first Hollywood film to successfully achieve Hong Kong type action & with actors that didn't know any martial arts. Combine that with a society growing in terms of technology & fx never seen before & the audience went nuts for it. The Wachowskis also put in philosophical themes but to many the film was simply an action film. With this new film the Wachowski's ask more questions & they want the audience to ponder them. I expect Revolutions will do more of the same. The film is no longer just an action film & viewers are not used to being asked to think in an action film. Up until now the genre was supposed to be sit back & enjoy. Now the Wachoskis are forcing the audience to participate in the film, & for some it isn't their cup of tea.
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-_-_-_-_-_- Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Apr '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 1:36pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	Reloaded was amazing, and it's a shame that some people don't give it the respect it deserves. I've said it before and I will say it again, years and years of anticipation can build up unrealistic expectations in the minds of many.
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Loco_for_Lucas Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 3:00pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 3:02pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Loco_for_Lucas
	Reloaded is more of an Empire Strikes Back than a Phantom Menace. As Cee said so brilliantly, this is the middle chapter, the one that is recieved the hardest as it's usually the most different from the first film. There was the same sentiment over Empire back in the day, leaving off with a cliffhanger and such. Plus, it's kind of petty of Star Wars fans, trying to bring down an up-and-coming trilogy down to reassure faith in a cultural icon that is faltering.
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Quixotic-Sith Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/18/03 3:02pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 3:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Quixotic-Sith
	Unless this thread demonstrates more than a tangential relationship to TPM (i.e., by comparing more than the experience of the fanbase), I'll be locking it and suggesting it move to Community in 24 hours. EDIT: typo -----signature----- Defense wins championships. "The professors are the enemy. Professors are the enemy! Write that on a blackboard 100 times and never forget it." - Nixon
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sdj Registered: Jan '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 3:06pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	Well how I was comparing it to TPM didn't have to do with the plot or the cliffhanger ending or anything, but about how it's divided the fanbase and how it's changed the perception of the future of the series. Let's face it TPM totally changed what it was like to be a Star Wars fan. It revealed to us how different people perceived what the series was about for better or for worse. I think people will debate Reloaded for years to come just like they are with TPM. I've already heard people say "they better make it up to us with Revolutions" just like they say with AotC and now Episode 3. Do most of us agree that this is a very similar situation? -----signature----- The circle is complete.
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Cometgreen Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 3:14pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 3:17pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Cometgreen
	"I'll tell you something else before this thread gets locked (I'm guessing here) the Matrix.R will have me going back to see more in terms of visuals and drama than TPM ever did and it'sll get more play in my DVD aswell. It was not the second coming many expected it to be but it was damn good all the same and just as enjoyable as its predecessor while pulling a few suprises of its own! Stuff of dreams is what it is, not nightmares like TPM!" The bolded part is exactly what TPM was. Not what all those fanboys expected, but it was damn good all the same. EDIT: "Plus, it's kind of petty of Star Wars fans, trying to bring down an up-and-coming trilogy down to reassure faith in a cultural icon that is faltering." Uhh, in case you didn't see on TFN's news page, Reloaded is being compared to AOTC and SW by many, many critics. That means that SW is a faltering cultural icon? Cometgreen
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CeeJay Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 5/18/03 3:50pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	You want comparisons to TPM well here it goes. Did the MATRIX Revolutions portray a whole new style in direction from its predecessor, did it suddenly develop the need for a surge of comedy so outstanding it would seem to have spilled over from a neighbouring film-set? Did it contradict in anyway, shape or form plotlines or statements of fact laid down beforehand, if not did it then fail to expand on them or add much needed depth or information to the world introduced? Did its set-pieces overwhelm the narrative, did they dissapoint or at any time feel like they could have been more, much more than what they were? Were the villians of the film lacking in exposition, where lines clearly drawn on who where and why they are, let alone the good guys! (I'm still waiting for an explanaition on how the Sith came about and how Maul tracked the Queens ship let alone why there is only ever two from WATCHING the films, not from reading books!) Last but not least did the hero actually come off as such, a person trying to do good for the benefit of all and do I lend my self to invest intrest in his fate and the others he fights for or do I feel as I do when I watch the PT films that its their own fault and it serves them right? In contrast to the heroes of the OT I really have no feeling towards most of the barely fleshed out characters in both SW PT films because they are so badaly realized and emotionless! The people in the MATRIX look like they are fighting for survival, the slaves in TPM came off like regular Tattooine citizens going on about their business! The Jedi seemed bored and not to bothered about the Status Quo of the universe or the corruption broiling in the senate and how an entire planet can get blockaded, invaded and the very Queen of that world beg for help and be ignored is beyond common sense! Can I really lend myself to that plot? No, the Matrix continues to expand on a already broadly philosophical concept, far more complex and interwoven than anything I could expect from SW and really don't in all honesty. All I expect is a well scripted, plotted, performed and directed film which I can watch back to back with others in its series without a link in that chain failing the strenght of the entire collection. TPM is a weak link, so weak it comes of as plastic in a link of chains where the 4th and 5th links are gold, the 2nd is bronze and the last link merely straw! The Matrix Reloaded is as good as its predecessor and nothing more, I truly feel it expanded on the tale already begun, they moved on without going off the tracks and kept all if not most of the passengers onboard to the destinations end. The SW train however has firmly derailed and on course for a nasty crash. Fortunately a majority of its passengers bailed at the last stop once they realised the train was no longer going in the direction they it originaly intended! -----signature----- There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
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Gay-LenKenobi Registered: Sep '00	Date Posted: 5/18/03 3:55pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	"no longer going in the direction they it originaly intended" I think that is a very revealing statement. TPM wasn't the direction some fans wanted to go. But it was the direction the creator wanted to go. They aren't obligated to stick around for the rest of the ride, but neither is he obligated to change it's course to please those fans. -----signature----- In loving memory of Molly Oakes Welcome back, G-S! http://www.theanchoritefour.com http://artists.mp3s.com/artists/224/the_anchorite_four.html
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CeeJay Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 5/18/03 4:02pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 4:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: CeeJay
	That would be valid had the director actually had a driection to begin with and followed it instead of flying by the seat of his pants and making it up as he goes like an Indiana Jones adventure! I still wonder what Count Dooku would have gotten up to in TPM had GL actually thought about creating his character while fully plotting the stories; then I have to also wonder what Jar Jar would have gotten up to in AOTC if he was as well recieved as Han Solo? The part-time director had no intended direction other than to create digital spectacle as a showcase for his number one SFX company. The rest is history! -----signature----- There's a reason you separate military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.
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AdamBertocci Title: Manager: Fan Films Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 5/18/03 4:26pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 5/18/03 6:21pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Quixotic-Sith
	The doofus talkbackers on AICN are whining about Matrix and calling it "Matrix: Episode One". Rick McCallum doesn't love flame-baiting comments towards posters at other forums. Rick McCallum loves you! -----signature----- "Run Leia Run", "The Chopped-Off Hands of Star Wars" and "The Fan Film Menace"... ... and now the award-winning "Brooklyn Force". Check 'em out. http://www.runleiarun.com
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ShaneP Title: Lucasfilm Projects Gremlin(Manager ) Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 5/18/03 4:26pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	sdj brings up a great point. I agree 100%. I was underwhelmed by TPM and Reloaded. Your insight into fanbases being divided is telling as well. It is like when Star Trek: The Next Generation showed up, or as Classic Trekers call it: The "other" Generation. Geeks. I was a fan of the first Matrix, but it's clear the Waschowskis, like Lucas with parts of Jedi and TPM, started to beleive their own mythic hype. Reloaded had great parts,including a stupendous freeway chase that's right up their with some classic chases, but also some bare, dry, and boring spots. Did I mention some of the dialogue was just as bad as some in TPM? And what the heck was Cornel West doing? Well, I know what he was doing based on the neo-marxist philosophical underpinnings of the story, but C'MON! And Roy Jones Jr?! WTF?! sdj, your observation was spot-on. They even underused their twins just like Maul. Good grief. -----signature----- Keep Your Words Sweet. You May Have To Eat Them.
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