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Author	Topic: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 8/1/03 10:30am Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 8/1/03 1:51pm (3 edits total) Edited By: Oakessteve
	So Durwood, since you think Jabba-Wocky's post was "absolutely" accurate, maybe you can tell me when TMR shows 90 of the 100 Agent Smiths just standing around on the roof shouting for the duration the Neo v Smiths fight. It doesn't. But as I read Jabba-Wocky's statements, it's obvious he simply meant "standing around yelling." I can only assume he mistook the location of their fight for a roof, for whatever reason. But truth is, most of the Agent Smiths weren't actively engaged in the fight and were indeed just standing around yelling for much of its duration. Regardless, it's a pointless scene with absolutely no narrative purpose. That's all he was trying say. While you're at it, maybe you can produce the data which proves Jabba-Wocky's assertion that most people who thought they were fans of the Matrix series wouldn't call themselves that after seeing Reloaded. I don't know about percentages, but it's pretty evident that many people who enjoyed the first film were understandably disappointed with the second. The fact that it but a huge rift in the fanbase speaks volumes. At any rate, I find it very interesting that you choose to nitpick the least important aspects of Jabba-Wocky's post without ever touching the real meat of his blisteringly accurate condemnation of one of the worst sequels of all time. Now I realise that this would require more time and effort then it takes to type "Great post [insert name here]!", and I have read DrEvazan's NOTE TO ALL POSTERS on page 86 of this thread, but hope does triumph over experience sometimes- Edited for flaming. -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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VCT Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 8/1/03 11:05am Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	his blisteringly accurate condemnation of one of the worst sequels of all time. Well, as long as we are stating our opinions as though they are fact, I'd say based on the reception of the PT in the film industry, the SW prequels (either one) easily outdo TMR for being considered among the "worst followup" films of all time. -----signature----- Star Wars films ranked on IMDb's Top 250 films of all time (voted on by film fans around the world): SW: #12 ESB: #7 ROTJ: #110 TPM: Not in the Top 250. AOTC: ditto. ROTS: ditto...
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Darth Geist Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 8/1/03 11:13am Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	But as I read Jabba-Wocky's statements, it's obvious he simply meant "standing around yelling." They weren't yelling either. -----signature----- When George Lucas was in his early twenties, he was wrecking his health in the burning Tunisian desert, risking a new and fragile career on a movie no one believed in. When I was in my early twenties, I was complaining on the Internet about George Lucas.
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Lady_Sami_J_Kenobi Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 8/1/03 11:26am Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	I don't post in this thread too often, but I will say this, I am a fan of the Matrix who in no way considers TMR to be inferior to the first installment or an embarrassment to the series. My 2 kids and their friends feel the same way. So, that's six fans who are not disappointed and that's just in my small circle. Lady Sami -----signature----- The path to the Dark Side isn't quick-it starts with "I Hate my hair" and ends with nuking Alderaan. Rm 204-The Ward. In support of Ambassador Cara Jade [face-hugs] What's logical in a world where the sun appears to set when it's the horizon rising?
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Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 8/1/03 12:10pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 8/1/03 12:12pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Durwood
	Well, as long as we are stating our opinions as though they are fact... I just call it like I see it, my friend. ------ So, that's six fans who are not disappointed and that's just in my small circle. And I know at least six people who were disappointed. In fact, I was just talking to one of my friends at work yesterday who just sat there shaking his head over how bad Reloaded was. Then I made his day by pointing to him the new photos of Episode III Obi-Wan. Hey, at least there's one film franchise we can still count on to consistently give us high quality entertainment! -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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DrEvazan Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 8/1/03 1:03pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 8/1/03 1:07pm (2 edits total) Edited By: DrEvazan
	Yeah, well, DrEvazan can be a jerk sometimes (I'm being gracious here). save the bait for someone else. -----signature----- no original OT on DVD? Boycott Episode III!
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Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 8/1/03 1:09pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	^^^ Oh, the irony of self-righteous indignation when I have simply taken the bait you offered in the first place! Cute. -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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Green_Destiny_Sword Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 8/1/03 1:12pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	It's times like these when I like to refer back to a post from much earlier in this thread, to again return a little reality. : DURWOOD said: But the point is, if the machines simply did the logical thing and eliminated those who rejected the programming, there'd be no need for Zion or the one or all that other nonsense. Someone starts to reject the programming, just pull the plug. Putting them in a position where they can provide a constant threat is illogical. Okay just a few points here. Durwood—Please stop posting that you “get” Reloaded. From your posts, it’s clear you don’t. Additionally, for someone who has puffed himself up as some aged, philosophy-spewing sage, you have yet to formulate one philosophical idea or treatment of TM or TMR. Or on anything for that matter. Yes, I am calling you out because you just rant for the sake of ranting. You claim you are making TM fans “squirm” when in fact you are doing nothing of the sort. You are just a trash-talker. A noise maker. A party favor. Until you start giving us your complex philosophical interpretations of some subject (which you bragged about), or just admit you don’t know what you’re talking about, you got nothing. But let me throw you a bone even though I am sure you have this all figured out already since you “get” the movie so well and I am sure have a complete understanding of Gnostic thought. TM – Dogma. TMR—Anti-Dogma. Maybe you should stop thinking that everything Neo is told by the Architect is true. It still amazes me that these two movies are being compared in terms of reaction. Let’s inject a little reality into this debate. Here are some excerpts of the "critical accalim" of TPM. Almost as soon as George Lucas' overhyped first chapter in the Star Wars saga, The Phantom Menace, hit multiplex screens, the criticism began. The largest portion of that criticism now seems leveled at one goofy, computer-generated alien called Jar Jar Binks. He steps in poop, he gets farted on, he trips, he slips, he gets his tongue stuck in an electrical socket -- is it any wonder most moviegoers over the age of ten have found Binks' "comic relief" questionable? Joe Morgenstern, The Wall Street Journal's film critic, called him "a Rastafarian Stepin Fetchit on platform hoofs, crossed annoyingly with Butterfly McQueen." In a particularly vicious anti-Star Wars tirade, Time magazine's cultural guru Robert Hughes slammed Jar Jar as "a wrist-flapping, deer-faced twit of an alien with the voice of a Jamaican drag-queen, who encumbers every scene he's in with his overacted dippiness." Critics aren't the only ones venting, however. The Internet is swarming with anti-Jar Jar sentiment. Deja.com has seen over 80,000 messages dissing the floppy-eared irritant. There are so many anti-Jar Jar Web pages floating around cyberspace now, that Yahoo.com has created an entire category for them. Among the more than one dozen Web sites are Delete Jar Jar Binks!, Jar Jar Bites, The Jar Jar Hate Page, JarJarMustDie.com, JarJarSucks.com, Killing Jar Jar and The Jar Jar Job Hunt. Typical is Killing Jar Jar (www.dailymovies.com/news/1702_main.html), which features the Web page's designers torturing a Jar Jar action figure in a series of cruel, if amusing, video clips. The Jar Jar Job Hunt (www.mrshowbiz.go.com/features/phantommenace/jarjar.html), run by Mr. Showbiz.com, is a little more constructive, offering up employment opportunities which would keep Jar Jar out of the next Star Wars movie. (Suggestions include taking over for Regis Philbin on "Live with Regis and Kathy Lee.") Has there been any similar reaction to Reloaded? Give me a break. GL literally drove people insane with his creation of the most hated character in movie history. I never even took the time on these forums to try and “analyze” or evaluate Jar Jar as a character. What’s the point? He is in the same family as the 2 headed podrace-announcing monstrosity and Elian Gonzalez Sleazebaggano. You guys are just trying to revise history in a lame attempt to bash TMR. Why? Just again, out of hatred and envy of the franchise that stole the thunder from “Phantom Menace, Open Bigot.” Outside of the fact that probably 99% of this forum defended these idiotic characters to the death, no one ever even cared that their favorite franchise was offending so many people. And here's another gem: With Phantom Menace, Lucas seems to have forgotten this technique and it is the special effects that take center stage. And perhaps this is due to this movie being one long special effect, which is what it really is. It reminds me of a line that Ben Kenobi spoke in the original trilogy when he referred to Darth Vader, "He's more machine now than man." Well this movie is more computer generated than it is a live action film. Why build a set when you can create it on a computer? Why create an alien costume or hire an actor when all you need is a computer to draw it on and a voice to speak it's lines? Who needs your actors to give a good performance, when you can digitally alter their expressions or paste on a face from another scene? All of these things are technically amazing, but they take the heart, the humanity, out of the process. On this film, Lucas is a Frankenstein, in love with his creation. Still, out of this digital creation, I could still have enjoyed it if only there were actors or characters strong enough to stand out against this computer enhanced backdrop. As both my brothers have mentioned, Jake Lloyd as Anakin is horrible, and the weak lines he is given to deliver, don't help either. Liam Neeson, whom I have never been a fan of, blends in so blandly as to become almost invisible. His death comes as a relief. The only actors/characters that really worked for me in the whole movie are Natalie Portman as Queen Amidala, Ian McDiarmid as Senator Palpatine, and of course the character of Darth Maul. Only these three are able to make their presence felt amid the virtual clutter that is this movie. There are a few moments that I would deem classic in this movie, such as the final Light-Saber duel, but these moments are very few and far between. And they do not do enough to make this movie rise above anything other than an exercise in Digital Animation. -----signature----- "Like most things, I am nothing. It is the same for this sword, it's all simply a state of mind..." -- Li Mu Bai "I don't think anyone anticipated the breach of the levees" -- President Bush blatantly lying to America. www.downingstreetmemo.com -- The T
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Durwood Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 8/1/03 1:21pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace? - Date Edited: 8/1/03 1:27pm (3 edits total) Edited By: Durwood
	^^^ As long as you're mining the ancient past, why don't you go ahead and post our previous rebuttles? Better yet, why not just point us to the appropriate URL so we can see the entire discussion in context(!) as isolating select quotes out of context--and, more importantly, isolating them from the previous counter arguments--is a little disingenuous. Nice try, but I'm calling you on it. -----signature----- "[STAR WARS fans] all have very strong ideas about what should happen, and they think it should be their way. Which is fine, except I'm making the movies, so I should have it my way." -George Lucas
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Oakessteve Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: May '99	Date Posted: 8/1/03 1:47pm Subject: RE: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	I think this thread has gone long enough, and really, there's no polite discussion going on at all, therefore I'm locking it. -----signature----- Molly Oakes 1996-2003 "Lots of planets have a north." Dark Lord of the JCC
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Strilo Title: Manager: • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/5 9:09pm Subject: So now the Matrix fans have their Phantom Menace?
	Another up'd for the TF.N anniversary. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: The Killers "Human" #1 on iTunes Most Played Scores: Fellowship of the Ring "Bilbo's Ring" ---------- They will not force us. They will stop degrading us. They will not control us. We will be victorious.
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