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Topic:
TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 10:46am
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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 Well, they're all foreign aliens unless they file the proper paperwork. 
I found the Star Wars saga to have a bunch of British accents as well.
What's missing from the Star Wars Universe is some good old true American accents. Like these folks:
 
I mean, Anakin's pod racer was on blocks in his driveway.
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Dubbed "Paige I have More Porn Than Hustler" of the Knights of the JCC Sarcasm Table
Master Baitor
I will have my Sarcasm in this life or the next.
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Shelley
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 1:12pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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The Trade Federation aliens DO sound asian. Watto DOES sound Mexican or Italian or maybe a mix.
He also sounds Arab or Jewish, depending on who you ask.
I would challenge you to that they didn't.
I would challenge you to say what, exactly, "Asian," "Mexican," and "Italian" sound like.
The JarJar matter I think hinges on maybe a word or two that I can see how it was blown out of proportion but I don't agree that it is true or correct at all. The point is that I don't think that GL was making stereotypes. I can't even really make a comparision on how he did or didn't. I do think he used certain ethnicities to portray these aliens linguistically
He said that the Nemoidians were speaking with a Transylvanian accent.
and I think that was a bad choice because it DOES open the door to people making further comparisions and leaps in logic to say he was using stereotyping in his characters.
And those people need to a) get a life; and b) quit demeaning the cause they claim to champion by focusing on such nonsense when there are genuine examples of very pernicious racism every day in real life.
IMO the people who carried on about the so-called stereotypes in the PT were trying to cloak their hatred of SW and/or Lucas in moral righteousness, or else just trying to get attention. This is not a new thing, by the way. When the original SW movie came out, Lucas was accused of racism because there were no non-white actors in the major cast -- except for James Earl Jones, who played the voice of Darth Vader, aka the villain of the picture. Then when ESB rolled around, Lucas was again accused of racism because of Lando Calrissian, who betrays his friend Han Solo, was black.
There are people who will look for things to complain about, and if they can hide behind moral outrage, so much the better for them.
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A bona fide conservative exposes Ann Coulter as the liar, bigot, extremist, and hatemonger that she is: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001939.htm Protect America...impeach Bush.
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 2:54pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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It would also be kinda bummer if everyone talked in American or English accents, especially in a galaxy far, far away that is so diverse.
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Dubbed "Paige I have More Porn Than Hustler" of the Knights of the JCC Sarcasm Table
Master Baitor
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COLDLIGHT
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 5:05pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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Look, we humans have a natural propensity to rank things. We're always doing 'Top Tens', or 'what are ten things you most hate/love/want to experience/etc.etc.
Think of it this way. Rank the 5 Star Wars from best to worst/favourite to least favourite (and if you want to say that you can't, 'cause they're all one big saga, that's fine - but that doesn't disallow others from ranking). Now, the movie that is your least favourite, or you think is the worst (it might be TPM, might ANH, whatever) -- there are going to ALWAYS be members of the public and SW fans who will agree with you, and disagree with you.
There's really no need to take criticism of TPM, compared with other SW films, as if someone's threatened to shoot your family.
And please - do you know how immature and ridiculous these Anti-StarWars-Conspiracy theories sound? People might hate SW, fine. If you hate a movie, you don't watch it again, and you bitch about it to all your friends, and if you're a film critic, you write a negative review. You don't set up an international shadowy media-corporate alliance hell-bent on the destruction of all involved in the making of these films. Honestly. We're not trapped in an episode of the X-files here, people.
IMO the people who carried on about the so-called stereotypes in the PT were trying to cloak their hatred of SW and/or Lucas in moral righteousness, or else just trying to get attention.
Oh please... cry me a friggin' river.
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If liberty means anything at all,
it means the right to tell people
what they do not want to hear.
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 5:10pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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The thing is, we used to to top tens. Now there are almost as many worst tens.
Personally for me, the negativity gets out of hand. I can't believe all the things people complain about on a regular basis.
As if our lives are so bad that we have to slam everything all the time.
Life's too short to dwell on the negative.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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The_Nameless_One
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 5:21pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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The five Star wars movies are the five greatest movies of all time, so if some people say that Episode I is the least popular part of the Saga, then that still makes it the fifth greatest film ever made, and that's not too bad
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In time you shall all know me for who I am. www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/starwars/lucas.html - George Lucas Do fat men understand Tolkien?  Comforter of noobs
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Darth_Mimic
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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This from Coldlight...
"People might hate SW, fine. If you hate a movie, you don't watch it again, and you bitch about it to all your friends, and if you're a film critic, you write a negative review. You don't set up an international shadowy media-corporate alliance hell-bent on the destruction of all involved in the making of these films. Honestly. We're not trapped in an episode of the X-files here, people."
Any media outlet that you pay to access has an ulterior motive: profit. In other words, a media outlet will do what it feels is important and necessary to sell itself. Some things, like Entertainment Weekly, appear to have an anti-Star Wars bias because of the negative reviews they give to Star Wars films and Star Wars culture. That's not a hidden conspiracy - that's a marketing strategy.
Of course there's not an underground conspiracy against Star Wars. It's just that, well, film criticism isn't what it once was. Remember Ebert? I don't always agree with him, but he's at least had some academic training. His knowledge of film technique and history mean that he can do more than just say "I liked it because it was flashy" or "I hate it because it was flashy". With the internet, we've seen a huge rise in film criticism as an industry, but the film critics are less liek Ebert and more like Harry Knowles.
My point is that film critics seem to be missing some of the essential elements of the films they are criticising. Look at all of the accolades that "The Incredibles" received. Most reviews commented on the CG humans, a technical aspect. While that is important in a film, it certainly shouldn't replace plot. The plot of the film was exactly appropriate for the humour and animation style, but few critics mention it save to give a brief synopsis. No critic lamented the deaths offered in the film as being 'hidden' behind euphemism, but that is what happenned.
Oh, and Ben Burrt describes the languages used for various alien races in his book "The Star Wars Galactic Phrase Book" (which had me rolling on the ground, at times). It seems taht all of the alien dialogues had some Earth language basis somewhere.
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"I thought I was the Boy Scout." (Superman)
Truth is the most valuable thing we have. (Twain)
"Get this cheese to sickbay." (Voyager)
Lieutanant, Imperial Squadron, TPMDF
It's my rapper name. (N. Portman)
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Zar_Valen
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
12/9/04 11:08pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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Both Hutteese and the Ewoks were taken from real dialects from here on Earth.
In the case of these and Nien Numb I would say that they are either taken from a linguistic so obscure or the sound mix and design has extrapolated it to a such a point that they are no longer readily recognizable. Again, in none of the alien speech in the OT was I reminded of Earth languages. But in Episode 4 the languages used seem to be very common ones. I had to keep wondering "what IS that accent?". To me, the two highly noticeable ones sound just like a take-off on Japanese and Spanish. Strilo mentioned Watto sounding Italian and I can see that. Go-Mer-Tonic says the intent of GL on Nute Gunray was to be a Bela Lugosi-ish Romanian/Transylvanian accent. Shelley has mentioned Arab and Jewish. The point isn't who is right or wrong here or even what the sources are exactly, but that the dialects are distinctly Earthbound. That seems to be the point that no one is disputing. And THAT is what is distracting to me personally.
When I'm watching this movie and one of the characters sounds Japanese, then suddenly I'm not in "a galaxy far, far away" anymore. The illusion is lost for that moment or two I have to think about what non-alien source the language seems to be based on. An entirely distracting vague ethnicity. Maybe it's a total coincidence but for something that was avoided in the prior movies it seems to surface often in this one.
Again, this is just my opinion and I'm in no way trying to tear this movie down. It's just one of the reasons I presented for the question asked, "TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?". I'm going to leave my point at that.
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MTFBWY
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 9:10am
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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All of the dialects are Earth bound.
If they weren't we wouldn't understand what they were saying. Whether or not you are personally familliar with them doesn't change that fact.
You get ripped out of the experience when you hear English spoken with what you hear as an Asian accent, but have no trouble when the English has a British or American accent?
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Shelley
Registered:
Sep '01
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 11:07am
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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And please - do you know how immature and ridiculous these Anti-StarWars-Conspiracy theories sound?
Which particular theories are those?
People might hate SW, fine. If you hate a movie, you don't watch it again, and you bitch about it to all your friends, and if you're a film critic, you write a negative review. You don't set up an international shadowy media-corporate alliance hell-bent on the destruction of all involved in the making of these films. Honestly. We're not trapped in an episode of the X-files here, people.
The only one who's mentioned an elaborate alliance to bring down SW is you, COLDLIGHT.
Oh please... cry me a friggin' river.
What? I don't get what you mean by this response.
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A bona fide conservative exposes Ann Coulter as the liar, bigot, extremist, and hatemonger that she is: http://www.bradblog.com/archives/00001939.htm Protect America...impeach Bush.
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Zar_Valen
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 11:32am
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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You get ripped out of the experience when you hear English spoken with what you hear as an Asian accent, but have no trouble when the English has a British or American accent?
When humans speak English or even a more formal form of English (which is the case with the British stage actors often featured in these films) then it is easy for my brain to accept. To see an alien, who looks alien, and is supposed to be speaking in an alien dialect, that sounds a whole heckuva lot like Japanese for no apparent reason, then yep that's distracting.
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MTFBWY
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Darth_Mimic
Registered:
Jun '03
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 11:51am
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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"To see an alien, who looks alien, and is supposed to be speaking in an alien dialect, that sounds a whole heckuva lot like Japanese for no apparent reason, then yep that's distracting."
I have a question, then. Why doesn't it take you out of the experience when a non-human speaks in British or North American English? Admiral Ackbar speaks English with an American accent. Yoda, Ki Adi Mundi, and the Kaminoans all speak English with American or British accents. Why is this more palatable for you than English with a Transylvanian accent?
-----signature-----
"I thought I was the Boy Scout." (Superman)
Truth is the most valuable thing we have. (Twain)
"Get this cheese to sickbay." (Voyager)
Lieutanant, Imperial Squadron, TPMDF
It's my rapper name. (N. Portman)
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Sith_Sensei__Prime
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 12:07pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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"Why can't there be foriegn accents in space without it being a racial thing?" signed...
Sulu
Checkov
Scotty
Although, Sulu really didn't have an accent. However, I wonder what it would have been like if Spock had a Southern Accent.
EDIT: BTW, my microwave and coffee maker are offended because R2D2 has a Sony accent and something about parts being made in Taiwan.
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Dubbed "Paige I have More Porn Than Hustler" of the Knights of the JCC Sarcasm Table
Master Baitor
I will have my Sarcasm in this life or the next.
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 12:30pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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I am glad this has no effect on my enjoyment.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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The_Nameless_One
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
12/10/04 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: TPM is "winning" IMDB's Worst Star Wars Film survey. WHY?
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I didn't notice anything until some of the haters in the media told me it was there - I wish I could be better prepared for these films
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In time you shall all know me for who I am. www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/starwars/lucas.html - George Lucas Do fat men understand Tolkien? Comforter of noobs
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