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Topic:
Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin/OC Complete 8/9!!
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Shaindl
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/12/04 11:04am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/12/04 11:08am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Shaindl
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PK - nope, I don't know that a different master would have made a difference, but I do think that weighing Obi down with a ten year old kid with some serious issues was a idiotic thing to do. It's completely possible that Anakin would have turned no matter who his master was - but the issue wasn't helped by having a master as young and inexperienced as Obi (who had some issues of his own to resolve after Naboo).
Honour - I think you're being harsh on Anakin (I know, I know, all of you who know me - I'm defending Anakin  ). What kid who's been ripped out of his home, lost the only connection he had to the Jedi (and the one who promised him he'd BE a Jedi), wouldn't ask about what would happen to him? He maybe asked at an inappropriate time, but the kid was only nine. Hell, I would be wondering at that point, and I'm 26!  And yes, it was his own choices that caused him to turn, and Obi-Wan undoubtedly did the best he could, but should a kid with that much potential (both for good and for harm) have been entrusted to a 25 year old who was only knighted on the death of his Master? I highly doubt it.
You know, OE, I've always believed that the best stories are the ones that provoke heated debate. Good job - second post and we're already arguing.
Shaindl
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Halfway Moment - Qui, Obi, Anakin AU - http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/20110461/?0 - UPDATED JULY 3!
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thebadge
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
1/12/04 3:07pm
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
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up
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Eagle Day August 15, 1940
ON WISCONSIN!
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obi_ew
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
1/12/04 3:09pm
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
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Debate away!
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In Loving Memory Of CC  Price of Courage- Obi/Whie/Luke- http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/20124958/?37 Updated 4/20 Finally!!
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
1/12/04 3:46pm
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
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While I agree with you all that this scene was much better than the TPM council had decided (Obi-Wan was too young and inexperienced to mentor such a problem child), I wonder at which Master will be picked and what problems would arise from it. Also, Anakin will be once again adrift in a Temple which has not welcomed him with warmth. I can't believe that Ani would see it as other than another rejection and a personal rejection from Obi-Wan!
Looking forward to more....
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Betrayal - http://boards.theforce.net/s/b1/10935143 updated 9/22/08 Fragments of Illusion- http://boards.theforce.net/bts/b10475/28456473 updated 11/20/08 jedidas3's Master At last - Hope for our country
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JadeSolo
Title: NSF managing NSWFF
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
1/12/04 7:13pm
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/12/04 7:20pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
JadeSolo
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And the fur starts to fly...well, it was fun on Lying, let's see if we can take it even further
First of all, Anakin should have been trained. He already had tremendous potential--think of what he could have done with that power had he never learned how to control it. As for the fundamental character flaws, Anakin is not perfect, and neither is anyone else. Even Obi-Wan himself had his moments of arrogance, and at times even had a big stick up his ass, but those were not reasons for him not to be trained.
Secondly, Obi-Wan should have been Anakin's master, but not right after Naboo. He needed time to grow into his new role as a knight, to mature, and to find his own way of passing on his knowledge of the Force. Anakin at that point needed someone who could teach him the basics and help him catch up to his age mates. Obi-Wan and Anakin were good for each other, in the same way that Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were good for each other. Besides, Anakin was only ten. He had a couple of years before reaching the age when initiates are chosen as padawans. It's easy to say in hindsight that Anakin was bad/evil/a monster/whiny/self-absorbed/etc, but at the time he was just a kid who had been ripped from the only person who loved him and had lost the one person who had truly believed in him. He was scared and alone--it's understandable, IMO, that he would be worried about what would happen to him.
Thirdly, even with a different master for his entire apprenticeship, Anakin wouldn't have been a perfect angel. He was still the slave boy from Tatooine, and nothing could have exstinguished his love for un-Jedi like activities such as podracing. A different master might not have understood how Anakin came to the Temple the way Obi-Wan would have. He might not have turned to the dark side, or he might have turned anyway.
Did I just say Obi-Wan had a stick up his ass? 
EDIT: So let me actually say something about the post I loved Mace and the way he assured Obi-Wan he wasn't breaking his promise  I can't wait to see what happens with the relationship between Obi-Wan and Anakin.
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"If you expect a kick in the balls and you get a slap in the face, it's a victory."
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shanobi
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 5:06am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
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Wonderful obi_ew! I know you've been working on your writing, and not that it wasn't good before, but I really see a difference in your discriptions here. These are just two examples I found where your descriptions really stood out.
The very air around him was charged with the incredible power harnessed by these individuals, making him feel slightly lightheaded. He tightened his shielding, trying deflect some of the powerful current swirling through the room.
and
Bowing his head, Obi-Wan forced himself to examine the situation from their prospective. Although a part of him wanted to deny it, they were absolutely right in their decision. He was not capable at this time to take on such a massive undertaking. Adrift and reeling from the loss of his mentor, he knew that it would take time for him to find his center and gain the knowledge needed to train another being. Especially one as unusual as Anakin.
I liked the way you explained things, and how both the council and Obi-Wan responded to each other. It was nice to see Mace go to Obi-Wan as well and not remain as distant and detatched as the council can sometimes appear to be. Now, who was that little flash of anger from, hmmm?
Great job so far, keep up the good work.
--Shan
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VadeyFan2002
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 5:50am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
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The first reasonable decission I've ever heard from the Council!
I only hope they wont give Anakin into the Count' s experienced hands. At this point he is still a member of the Order, or not?
And it's good to know that Mace will keep an eye on Obi and will function as a mentor of sorts.
 Vadey
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Story: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=9667170&replies=
What if Vader learned about Leia before he knows about Luke
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Lurkalidth
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 6:52am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/13/04 6:54am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lurkalidth
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I wonder...alright I can see how if someone's very strong in the Force and subconsciously draws on in, perhaps the person ought to receive some rudimentary training, lest s/he accidentally cause his/her fellows harm. Of course, that is logical thinking, something which imvho the Jedi don't really seem to engage in all too often. (e.g., throwing away your resources into Agricorps)
Still, is training for Jedi Knighthood the only option? There has to be some sort of training he could undergo w/o putting him on the Knighthood track, isn't there? Why not the Chosen One as a Healer. ::thinks about Vadar's habit of asphyxiation:: Er perhaps him as a Healer isn't a great idea, but there has to be more of a choice than knighthood-or-nada. What about being a docent?
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honour
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 8:06am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/13/04 8:10am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
honour
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Someone said the following: "[H]e was just a kid who had been ripped from the only person who loved him and had lost the one person who had truly believed in him..."
How was Anakin ripped? He and his mother made a choice the last time I watched TPM. And did his mother not believe in him?
As for Obi-Wan not being ready to be a master, I would suggest that Qui-Gon still had a thing or two to learn about that file. The "great man" ignorantly cast aside one apprentice in front of a 10-year-old and blathered on in front of said 10-year-old being a chosen something-or-other. Talk about giving an emotionally and intellectually immature child an inflated sense of self.
Other than the fact than no one should have to experience slavery, I have no sympathy for Anakin and I am certainly not prepared to lay the blame for Anakin's shortcomings and egregious actions at Obi-Wan's feet. I'll put it at Qui-Gon's feet first.
The test of character for me is how one deals with adversity. Obi-Wan wins hands down on that file; Whinakin fails miserably. Obi-Wan grows as an individual while the other guy shrinks.
As I said, your story is engaging, obi_ew.
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Shaindl
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 8:14am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/13/04 8:23am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Shaindl
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I think Jade said everything I think about the situation. After Naboo, I don't think the Jedi could take the chance of not training Anakin - his presence was too well-known, and to send him back out into the galaxy would just have resulted in him being taken by the Sith much earlier. So I don't think the Jedi had much of a choice about keeping him at the Temple or training him.
So the question becomes whether or not Obi-Wan should have trained him. Jade (I think) raised a good point - why didn't they give him that two-three year cushion to catch up to his agemates and then let Obi-Wan take him? They would then both have had time to adjust to their new life circumstances and would maybe have been more successful. But I think OE has given us another good alternative here - Obi as a sort of older brother. And those are two alternatives for Anakin's training that I think we can debate endlessly.
But as PK (I think) said, why train him as a Knight when there are plenty of other occupations within the Temple he could have taken on (I've actually read a story in which Anakin becomes a healer instead)? It's an interesting question and makes you wonder exactly what was the Council thinking?
Of course, if they thought rationally in the movie, we likely wouldn't have had much of a movie to watch. GL needs his plot devices, after all.
Cheers,
Shaindl
EDIT: Honour, you beat me into posting!  Maybe ripped was strong (I was the one who said it) - and you're absolutely right, he and his mother did make a choice for him to go, but he still had been taken from everything he had ever known, and the one who promised to take care of him was suddenly dead. I stand by my assertion that you're being too hard on a nine year old kid who, for his entire life, has had to survive by looking out for himself. Incidentally, I never said I blamed Obi-Wan for his fall (and I DON'T blame him at all) - Anakin did make his own choices as he grew up and it was those that in great part led to his eventual role as a Sith. I think Obi-Wan was placed into an untenable situation in which he was destined to fail. How could he possibly have succeeded? I think ultimate blame for everything is on the Council's heads (and partially Qui-Gon's who like you said, threw away one apprentice for another).
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Halfway Moment - Qui, Obi, Anakin AU - http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/20110461/?0 - UPDATED JULY 3!
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Lurkalidth
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 9:45am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/13/04 9:55am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lurkalidth
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There was a fanfic w/ Anakin as a healer?! Hmm, that sounds intriguing, Shaindl. Do you have the 411? Inquiring minds have to know.
But yeah, I think honour makes some good points about Q-G's behavio(u)r towards Anakin. I wonder if they had any child psychology courses at all w/ the Jedi. First you reject one apprentice repeatedly, then you (potentially) give the next kid a swollen head.
And what's the deal w/ Apprentice #1 anyways? You hear about how Xani (apprentice#2) broke Q-G's trust...which meant O-W had to practically commit suicide in order to be accepted by the Great Qui-Gon. But whatever happened w/ Apprentice#1? Was he or she dumped unceremoniously, ejected from Q-G's mind as soon as he got Xani? Maybe this is something I missed in the movie? But if that was the case you'd've thought that Apprentice #1 would have been able to offer O-W support.
Um, thank you.
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~I brake for doughnuts.~
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Shaindl
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 9:54am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/13/04 9:56am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Shaindl
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Sorry, Lurky, I should have been a little more clear. It's just at the end of the story that Anakin ends up as a healer, not that he's a healer all the way through.
However, I always thought that was an interesting path for him, and I'm surprised no one's taken it up as a story idea - the Council is too afraid to train him to be a knight, so they train him as a healer instead. Hmm, interesting...
Ack! Bad plot bunny! Down! Too many rabid plot bunnies floating around right now...
Cheers,
Shaindl
EDIT: I'm a goof - forgot to give you the title of the story in case you wanted to read it. I'll warn you that it was a very popular story and had over 2000 replies, so it would take a while to plow through. It was The Price of Sacrifice by CalaisKenobi.
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Halfway Moment - Qui, Obi, Anakin AU - http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/20110461/?0 - UPDATED JULY 3!
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Lurkalidth
Registered:
Feb '03
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 10:01am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
- Date Edited:
1/13/04 10:06am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lurkalidth
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Shaindl, please don't apologize! But yes, I think that would be a fabulous idea. He's seen so much suffering...it would be nice if he could channel his convictions (and his negative life experiences) into helping others. As a Knight, he'd be living w/ the day-in, day-out necessity of using his warrior skills...every day using & honing the skills that could lead to his fall. Imvvho the margin for error w/ knights would be much narrower.
EDIT: Thanks for the title! And as for the # of responses...well, it adds to the ambiance, doesn't it? That's part of the pleasure, seeing how othes react to a work, what aspects of a story resonate w/ the readers. Often others' comments make me aware of things that I wouldn't have picked up on by myself. While I like the story-only boards (if I'm in a hurry), I miss the interaction.
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~I brake for doughnuts.~
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jacen200015
Registered:
Jan '02
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 10:13am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
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UP!!!
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If I review then PM me when you update. thanks so much. Send me your completed 'the saga' stories! Check out my new story Family Bonds Don't quote me the odds. I shall do as I must. Do or do not, there is no try.
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obi_ew
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
1/13/04 11:23am
Subject:
RE: Live What You Learn-AU Obi-Wan/Anakin Updated 1/11!
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Shaindl Mace may pop in quite often thanks to you! 
Sheila I tried to imagine how I would have liked events to unfold.
PK Obi will have a strong influence on this Anakin.
Red Your wonderful version of Obi strongly influenced this post.
Seraphena Thanks. I'm glad you agree.
honour Thank you for sharing your views. I love it!
Lurkalidth I wondered if anyone caught that quick reference.
JTJG Glad to see you!
dp A tiny bit of Obikin mush.
Captain I'm glad you found me and are enjoying so far.
thebadge Hi! Thanks for the up!
diane You raise some very interesting questions my dear.
Jade Sorry but I just can't get past that vision of Obi with a stick up his bum!
Shan Your bunnies always seem to inspire me. I'm trying hard to keep the descriptions balanced.
Vadey Hmmmmmmmmm...... 
Jacen Are you lurking?
I'm thrilled this is getting you guys thinking!
CHAPTER THREE
The Creche took up an entire floor of the Jedi Temple and was divided into two separate sections. The nursery housed the youngest children, infants and toddlers who required close supervision. Once they reached the age of six, they were paired with a roommate and moved to the other section where they remained until they were chosen and sent up a floor to the padawan level.
Unlike the rest of the Temple, the creche’s walls were painted in bright warm colors that inspired feelings of comfort and security, pictures the children had drawn lining the hallways. As he traveled down the familiar hallways, Obi-Wan was flooded with memories of his childhood days spent there. He could vividly remember feeling nervous and uncertain as he was lead into a room to meet his new roommate. That boy had turned out to become one of his best friends. A smile curved his lips as he heard the echo of his and Garen Muln’s childish voices raised in yet another argument.
"Garen loves Siri!"
"Shut up Obi before I have to do it for you!"
"You’d have to catch me first Gar!"
A chase had begun, the outcome inevitable as always. Obi-Wan’s smaller size serving to give him an advantage; allowing him to run faster and hide in places that Garen’s much bigger frame prevented him from entering. Their arguments did little to dampen the friendship that sustained them to this day, although the reminder of them still managed to bring a deep scowl to Garen’s handsome features.
As he reached the door of the recreation room, Obi-Wan smiled in remembrance as his gaze swept the packed and boisterous group inside. Recreation hour and meal time were the few times the children were allowed to shed their serious Jedi demeanor and act like the children they were. The creche workers were spread about the room in an effort to maintain some semblance of order, the children laughing loudly as they played various games.
His smile slowly faded as a survey turned up no sign of Anakin. Spotting a familiar figure, he weaved his way through the crush of small bodies until he stood before the stooped and graying figure who stood watching the organized chaos.
Jedi Master Trew had been a permanant fixture in the creche for as long as he could remember. The tall human female had once been an imposing figure with long red hair and bright golden eyes that never seemed to miss a thing going on around her. He could still remember vividly the countless times he had been wrapped in her arms for a warm hug, her hand cupping his cheek with genuine affection.
"Master Trew?"
A pair of faded golden eyes lifted to squint at him, the aged Jedi’s worn but kindly face splitting into a wide toothless grin as recognition dawned.
"Obi-Wan! What a sight your face is for my old eyes!" the senior Jedi exclaimed, the grin quickly fading to be replaced with one of deep sympathy. "I deeply regret your loss little one."
Bowing his head briefly at the kind words, Obi-Wan gathered his composure before facing Master Trew once again. "Thank you Master."
A wrinkled hand reached out to cup his cheek just as it had often in the past. "What brings you here?"
"I was looking for young Skywalker. He doesn’t appear to be amongst the other children however," Obi-Wan replied worriedly.
Master Trew’s hand dropped to her side as she frowned sadly. "No. He is having some trouble adjusting to his surroundings I’m afraid. Instead of joining the other children, he asked to remain in the class room. I agreed to let him slide this one time."
Troubled by the news, Obi-Wan glanced toward the classroom door with worried eyes. "I’m afraid what I am about to tell him may only make matters worse."
Sighing heavily, the creche master gave his arm a supportive pat. "I’m sure whatever it is, you will handle it as gently as possible."
Smiling warmly at the compliment, Obi-Wan leaned over to press a brief kiss against the wrinkled cheek before being shooed off with a wave of the gnarled hand. As he made his way toward the room Anakin was hiding in, he made certain to stop briefly and greet the young children who greeted him shyly. He could still remember being this young and in awe of the few senior padawans and knights who occasionally found themselves in the creche. Usually they were there unwillingly as a form of punishment for some minor infraction, but to the children it was a special treat.
He even had a vague recollection of receiving a wink and smile from both Masters Windu and Qui-Gon when he was quite young. When he first became Qui-Gon’s apprentice he had mentioned the meeting, only to have his new master assure him that he must be mistaken.
"Oh no Padawan Mine! I would remember such a momentous occasion!"
Chuckling wistfully at the memory, he halted in the doorway. His gaze immediately fell on the lone individual who sat in the center of the room, intent on rewiring a toy starfighter. The blond head drooped, a forlorn expression clouding the tanned features. It was painfully obvious that Anakin was not handling the drastic change his life had taken.
Moving silently into the room, Obi-Wan knelt down in front of the boy and studied him in silence for a moment before making his presence known.
"Why aren’t you playing with the others?"
The boy’s head snapped up at the question, a wide delighted smile splitting the young face.
"Obi-Wan!" Anakin Skywalker exclaimed, the toy falling to the floor with a clatter as he launched himself forward and into the young Jedi’s arms.
His own arms coming up instinctively to return the embrace, Obi-Wan awkwardly patted the small back before pulling back to study the shaggy haired boy intently. Flushing underneath that stare, Anakin bit his bottom lip nervously, his eyes falling to study the shorn area where Obi-Wan’s braid had once hung.
"You haven’t answered my question Anakin. Why aren’t you with the other children playing?" Obi-Wan quietly prodded.
Shrugging, the boy reached up to toy with the edge of Obi-Wan’s robe. "They don’t like me much."
Sighing underneath his breath at the pained admission, Obi-Wan gently gave the small shoulders a squeeze in order to gain the boy’s full attention.
"You have only been here a few days Anakin. Why would they dislike you? Have you even tried to make friends with any of them?"
"I don’t see the point. I’ll be leaving soon anyway," Anakin admitted. "Is that why you are here? To take me to live with the other padawans?"
Shutting his eyes briefly under the look of anticipation directed at him, Obi-Wan gathered his courage before responding.
"Anakin, I just came from meeting with the Council. They have decided, and I agree with them, that it would be best if you were trained by a more experienced knight. As soon as one is chosen, you will move to the padawan level. Until then, you should really try to make some new friends. These will be your agemates and you may one day find yourself working with them," he explained gently.
Deep blue eyes filled with a mixture of hurt and betrayal as Anakin stared at him. "You...you don’t want to train me?"
"That’s not it at all Anakin!" Obi-Wan quickly protested, his hand lifting to cup the boy’s cheek. "I..I need some time to get over losing Qui-Gon and can’t offer you the support you require right now."
Tears replaced the other emotions, the lips taking on a petulant twist. "But you promised me!"
"I know! And I was wrong to do that before speaking with the Council, but I wasn’t thinking clearly at the time," Obi-Wan tried to explain his actions. "I'm too young and inexperienced to train you right now."
Anakin shot him a wounded look before pulling away and dropping back down in his previous spot.
"Who will train me then?" he inquired sadly, his fingers playing with the small tool he had been using.
"The Council hasn't made a choice yet, but I'm sure whoever they chose will be wonderful. I'm truly sorry about this Anakin," Obi-Wan told him solemnly.
Met with a stony silence, Obi-Wan eventually got to his feet and turned to leave with shoulders slumped in defeat. Just as he reached the doorway, a small trembling voice halted his exit.
"Will I ever see you again?"
Turning around, he offered Anakin a warm smile of reassurance.
"Of course you will! I’ll be keeping an eye on you and your new master and we’ll visit every chance we get."
Sniffling, Anakin offered him a wobbly smile. "Okay. Do you want to stay and help me finish rewiring this?"
His heart aching at the eager and hopeful look on the boy's face, Obi-Wan smiled faintly as he moved back into the room and dropped down to sit cross legged across from him.
"I'd love to."
Grinning hugely, Anakin began to chatter away as he showed Obi-Wan what he was working on.
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In Loving Memory Of CC Price of Courage- Obi/Whie/Luke- http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/20124958/?37 Updated 4/20 Finally!!
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