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Author	Topic: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
Bri_Windstar Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 9/16/04 4:48pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	wants to see what has made Oba blush so -----signature----- Mediocrity- it takes a lot less time and most people won't notice the difference before it's too late. * OMG! SO RIDICULOUSLY AND AGGRAVATINGLY PERFECT!- Gabri * 11010110101000101011
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obaona Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 9/20/04 1:33pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	Lonewolf89: Dark and eerie - I like that description. I didn't originally intend for it to also be about Luke and his father, but it all worked out well - one of those things where it all comes together. That, and I think I was in a dark mood while writing this. Thank you very much! Bri: You wanna see it? I can send it to you. You know, it's writing it that made me blush - I've definitely seen more descriptive. -----signature----- MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind. - teh atty my recent Atton (KOTOR2) fic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30335989
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Jedi_Bant Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 10/16/04 3:13am Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	I have nothing against X-rated stories, they have an audience and that's the most important thing, so that is not why I am very dissapointed to read this. It's a well-written story, like most of your work, oba. But you yourself admitted that the R-rated scenes diminish the quality of the story and do not add any literal value to it. So why was it written in the first place? And made available to the masses? I've always respected you not just as a writer but as a person for your stringent principles which up until now was reflected in your writing. Please, you are so special and wonderful just the way you are. God has blessed you with a wonderful talent but like every other gift He gives us, we can use it for our growth or our destruction. Don't lessen yourself and corrupt other people by using your talent for... unworthy things. -----signature----- $To the Powers That Be - the truth is only bitter in the mouths of the unrighteous$ OBHWF
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Jedikma Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 10/17/04 8:36am Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette) - Date Edited: 10/17/04 8:37am (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedikma
	Jedi_Bant You are jumping to conclusions that Oba's PM version is X-rated. Remember this board is not supposed to go beyong a PG rating. In actuality, Oba's scene barely skirts an R-rating in my opinion and is very tastefully done, which proves it can be done in a taseful manner. Also, I do think the PM version does add to the pacing of the story. -----signature----- Twice in a Lifetime 7/31 http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/16813029 A Quiet Afternoon http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/23305946 follow up vig to: A New Order http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/17525231
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Jedi_Bant Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 10/17/04 11:08am Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	It still comes down to the same thing... it was unnecessary, just 'smut for the sake of smut'... -----signature----- $To the Powers That Be - the truth is only bitter in the mouths of the unrighteous$ OBHWF
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Gabri_Jade Title: Fan Fiction Archive Editor Emeritus Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 10/17/04 11:33am Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	Jedi_Bant: First of all, Jedikma is right. The scene barely, barely skirts an R rating - I'd actually put it more at PG-13. That means that it can hardly be considered 'smut' by most people. Secondly, Jedikma is also right in that the pacing of the story is best with that scene, which means that it's not unnecessary; it adds to the story. Believe me, truly unnecessary smut is easy to recognize. This wasn't it. Thirdly and most importantly, what obaona or any other author chooses to write is exactly that, a personal choice. Oba followed the rules of this board and did not post a scene that could have been considered to be against the standards upheld here. (I might add that the offering to send racier scenes via PM is a common practice and allowed.) Therefore, since no rules were broken in any way, oba has every right to write whatever she pleases. Nothing any author ever writes is going to please everyone. What is ultimately most important is that it pleases the author. If a reader is truly displeased with a story, he or she always has the options of either not reading or not leaving feedback. -----signature----- Evil Twin of LadyPadme This concept of "wuv" confuses and infuriates us! - Futurama All I can do is be me. Whoever that is. - Bob Dylan Serendipity (Leia-Mara vig) - http://boards.theforce.net/b/b1/30178069 !!11!1eleventy
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Jedikma Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 10/17/04 11:51am Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette) - Date Edited: 10/17/04 11:56am (1 edits total) Edited By: Jedikma
	Jedi_Bant But you are making a judgement that it is 'smut'. There is nothing 'smutty' about it. And it wasn't done for the sake of smut, but to see what she could do with such a scene. Personally, I think the story idea is a fabulous one--knowing that Mara spent those years with one objective in mind and that was to kill Luke. Actually, one could argue that the one night stand is more immoral than the tasteful love scene, but oba also doesn't show any glamour about it. Both characters are still lost and in pain when the night is over---perhaps even more so. (btw, oba let her mom read it. If she can show it to her mom than I would say there is nothing offensive about it.) -----signature----- Twice in a Lifetime 7/31 http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/16813029 A Quiet Afternoon http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/23305946 follow up vig to: A New Order http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/17525231
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Jedi_Bant Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 10/17/04 12:18pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	The way I see it, if it doesn't add to the story - if the story can still be told and understood without it, then it's unnecessary smut. obaona herself called it an R rated version. whether it's R18 or R15 is just picking straws, the writer knows exactly what she's doing... it's attitudes like this... trying to justify actions like this that have reduced the world to its present state of immorality... -----signature----- $To the Powers That Be - the truth is only bitter in the mouths of the unrighteous$ OBHWF
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Jedikma Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 10/17/04 12:29pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	I would agree with you on the count that justifying immorality is leading the world into the wastebasket, but I resent that you have attacked Oba's character when you haven't even seen what she has done. Sex is one of God's gifts too and she treats it with respect in this fic. She doesn't glorify anything and her PM version hardly goes any deeper than what's going on here. Being the conservative she is, she put the R rating on it to be safe. I noticed in one of oba's fics you were applauding that it was slash when it wasn't. I know that there are plenty of people that find slash morally offensive even when it is only a G rating. Your criticism of obaona is coming from your own stand of morality and it isn't appreciated. -----signature----- Twice in a Lifetime 7/31 http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/16813029 A Quiet Afternoon http://boards.theforce.net/the_saga/b10476/23305946 follow up vig to: A New Order http://boards.theforce.net/The_Saga/b10476/17525231
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LadyPadme Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 10/17/04 12:35pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	Jedi_Bant: I find this rant toward oba to be completely inappropriate. From the way you're writing your posts I'm assuming that you haven't even read the PM version; therefore to attack her story solely on the grounds that there is a racier version seems to me to be an unfair and very self-righteous judgmental attack; moreover, if you were disappointed in the fact that oba ventured out into territory of which YOU disapprove, it would have been far more appropriate (and polite) to have made these criticisms via PM. As far as this story goes, clearly Luke and Mara (or whomever) have their own demons to battle and are seeking some sort of release in this one-night stand. I have not yet had the pleasure of reading the PM version; however, it's easy to see that what they actually do in bed would be very evocative of their state of mind and emotions at that point in the story--just that perhaps such descriptions might not be appropriate for young eyes. [gets off soapbox] Now, oba, personally, I thought it was a very well written viggie (like pretty much everything you write). Luke smiles wryly. "Friends hold your heart; family holds your blood." The nothingness briefly returns to her eyes. "Sounds profound," she said lightly. Luke lets his gaze wander away. He looks down, and eventually at his wrist; he can see his blood moving, the slight movement from his pulse. He felt suddenly and irreversibly vulnerable. "You can take your heart back, but not your blood," he says, and it makes sense to him, anyway. I agree with the others that this passage was very well done, very telling and brought out more of the overall mood of the story beautifully. He hardly knew her, but he misses her. Red hair for a fiery spirit, had gone the tale, and green eyes that had showed so little. - Simply lovely. And...you know how old I am, so PM please? -----signature----- Evil Twin of Gabri_Jade When a baby smiles the world is happy
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PeriwinklSummer Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 10/17/04 12:46pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette) - Date Edited: 10/17/04 12:48pm (2 edits total) Edited By: PeriwinklSummer
	Hoo boy (to the above commentary). Is it just me or is the discussion on this board more heated than Luke & Mara? Well, I for one loved it. I can't believe you showed it to your mom though. I'm glad she was cool with it. I particularly liked the bits about her hair and Luke trying to figure out what color it is. "You have red hair,"- such a "Luke" line, always stating the sort-of obvious. "I was never here," she says back, and it's meaningless to Luke, but it means everything to her. "And now?" he asks, running his hand over her naked stomach. A slight crease appears between her eyes, then she laughs, and it's just a laugh but it seems like more. "Now I'm here." This part particularly got to me, showing their pain. I'm also a sucker for Luke/Leia twin moments, and considering the stuff Leia's going through with missing Han, it seems like twinliness. All in all, I loved it. Please send the PM chapter!! -----signature----- "...and those novels in which darkly handsome men pretend not to be interested in spirited green-eyed heroines until the last twenty pages, when they take them in their arms and all kinds of stuff happens." - Anna Quindlen
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StarFighter5 Registered: Jul '03	Date Posted: 10/17/04 5:38pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	Oba does not justify immorality in the vig. I wouldn't say the characters are happy at the end. I don't even see anything in the fic that implies that what they did was ok. Were you offended by this version or the PM? You don't say if you read it or not. It is not graphic or explicit. In fact it could have made it on the boards and not been edited by a mod. You wrote that: But you yourself admitted that the R-rated scenes diminish the quality of the story and do not add any literal value to it. So why was it written in the first place? And made available to the masses? She didn't. The R rated scene is in the PM, not what you see here. You have to be of age to read it. The way I see it, if it doesn't add to the story - if the story can still be told and understood* without it, then it's unnecessary smut.* Couldn't you say that about any story with a sex scene? You can understand what happened without it being there. And just because the scene adds to the story doesn’t mean the scene is not smut. Now you’re justifying smut. A synonym for smut is filth. It could be a filthy scene and still be integral to telling the story. You need to be more clear on what smut is. Oba wrote: I wrote the R-rated version for pacing reasons. I suppose it then could be said that it did add to them story. If you could post what Oba wrote about it not adding to the story, that could help me out. I can't seem to find that. The last thing I would like to say is that the PM is one to two sentences longer and they are not graphic sentences. If she had said the PM was PG-13 this discussion would not be going on. Oba wanted to be safe with the rules. She is conservative and does not write smut. Some less considerate members would have posted it and not cared if it was appropriate or not. I don't understand how you can even think that she would write smut. Oba is a gift from God, and she wouldn't write inappropriate things. The thing it comes down to is opinion. You think its smut, others do not. We're not going to change your mind; you're not going to change ours. One thing we agree on is that to justify bad actions, is to let those bad action occur again. I do not believe Oba is justifying the characters having sex in this vig, I get the opposite impression. I do not mean to argue, I'm just trying to explain. If it comes across as me belittling you, I do not mean it to seem so. -----signature----- "I hope I slept with you to get the job. if not, then who the hell was that guy?" - Carrie Fisher "Now that I'm a pez and a lego, I shall want for nothing else." -Jeremy Bulloch "Thank you for going to the movies. Especially mine." - George Lucas
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obaona Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 10/17/04 6:13pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	Hooboy is accurate. Since this turned into a little bit of a discussion, I'll pop in where it concerns the story and me directly. hugs to all those that posted. You completely understood what I was going for, and you're coming in to explain is much appreciated. Jedi_Bant: It's not smut for the sake of smut. As LP pointed out, you're making a judgement without even seeing it. As Jedikma said, And it wasn't done for the sake of smut, but to see what she could do with such a scene. That's exactly why I wrote it. I like to try different things, new things. Also as Jedikma mentioned (you read my mind) I did not glamorize what happened in any way. Do I approve of one-night stands? No. Do they happen? Yes, most definitely, and I could see these two characters having one in this situation. As someone else said much earlier, there's a sense of hopelessness to this fic. Having sex with a stranger didn't solve any problems, it probably just made it worse. Now this weighs on their consciences along with all their other difficulties - Mara and her allegiance to Palpatine, and Luke dealing with his father being a mass-murderer. I'm not justifying anything in this story - I'm dealing with reality. People have sex outside of marriage. They have sex when they're drunk, for stupid reasons, for all kinds of reasons. I even had a long discussion with Gabri about contraception and if I should mention it. I could understand if you were morally against it and thought I was glorifying it (and writing smut for the sake of smut), but you never read it to my knowledge and that's certainly not the way I wrote it. Where you come to that conclusion without seeing it is not clear to me. Kma is right, sex is a gift from God, but not all people treat it that way, and people make mistakes and do wrong things. The R-rated scene was written because I liked the pacing better. That's the way the story unfolded in my mind, and even as I wrote it I wasn't sure I would let anyone see it. I decided to offer it because I do like that version better - it flows more smoothly and adds emotional depth to the story. It's not particularly graphic, but I needed to talk about what they were feeling at that time, and thus, I rated it R. I don't see anything wrong with that, and letting mature people read it. There was a movie called To End All Wars. It was rated R, a lot of violence and torture, but there was purpose to it and ultimately the film was very uplifting. That's no different than what I was trying to do here. The little bit that I added has purpose in the story. Yep, I let my mother read it. I don't think she's actually read the PG version, come to think of it. I agree with what LadyPadme said: however, it's easy to see that what they actually do in bed would be very evocative of their state of mind and emotions at that point in the story--just that perhaps such descriptions might not be appropriate for young eyes. That's exactly it. And I was writing this, another person posted. StarFighter5: I do not believe Oba is justifying the characters having sex in this vig, I get the opposite impression. Yes. nods I'm glad, that is what I was going for. She also said, Oba wanted to be safe with the rules. Yes, I did. I've had a few people telling me I could have posted it, or it was PG-13, and so on, but my intent was never to push the rules, but to be careful and still have the whole story available for those that wanted it. If you want, we can discuss this via PM. LadyPadme: Thank you. That part you quoted is one of the better parts, definitely - it came easily, from nowhere. Sometimes it just works, and that part did. I think it shows how vulnerable Luke is then. Thank you. And yes, sending PM version as soon as I post this. PeriwinklSummer: Yes. Yep, I showed it to her, though not without blushing on my part. The parts about her hair - I wanted to keep it ambigious who she was until the end, and I thought she might try to dye her hair - since it is rather memborable. Twinliness - LOL, yes, I suppose so. I really wanted to show the pain they're both in. Thank you. I'll send in a minute. -----signature----- MS Word is designed by sadists with masochists in mind. - teh atty my recent Atton (KOTOR2) fic: http://boards.theforce.net/before_the_saga/b10475/30335989
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Bri_Windstar Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 10/17/04 6:58pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	blinks Wow. Well, i for one, Oba, wouldnt lose respect for you as a person or an author if you wrote "smut", but i would wonder slightly after my initial bafflement at seeing it. That said, i get the impression that the scence, even just from this version that, even for the characters, it isnt smut for the sake of smut. They arent even doing this for each other so much as they are for themselves. If escape for them comes in the arms of another human being, then so be it. That said, i still want the PM of the other version. -----signature----- Mediocrity- it takes a lot less time and most people won't notice the difference before it's too late. * OMG! SO RIDICULOUSLY AND AGGRAVATINGLY PERFECT!- Gabri * 11010110101000101011
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LianaMara Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 10/17/04 7:05pm Subject: RE: Blood (Luke/? - dark vignette)
	Mum, I adore this vignette. The descriptions, the dialogue, the raw emotions coming across to the reader are incredible. You fully immersed me in the pain and confusion that Luke and Mara were feeling, and that can only mean that I just read some excellent writing. It wasn't happy, but it was most definitely moving. And you portrayed perfectly the entire cycle of a one-night stand. Luke and Mara only made their lives even more discombobulated with what they did. Wow. Awesome job, my dear master mummy. -----signature----- "For us, there is only the trying. The rest is not our business." --T.S. Eliot Leilaé, handmaiden of the Crest \|\| petit Jedi enfant of obaona \|\| Lani & Lali's blonde triplet
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