Jedi Council Forums - Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.

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Author	Topic: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
farraday Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 5/16/04 12:37pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever. - Date Edited: 5/16/04 12:48pm (1 edits total) Edited By: farraday
	Yeah KW, stop sucking up to the mods you mod wannabe. o.O honestly we haven't had troll problems here inawhile I'm kinda surprised. Oh shut up KnightWriter freedome of expression should never be supressed Irony or Ignorance? -----signature----- Not photoshopped, digitally enhanced or altered.
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 5/16/04 12:44pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Sorry, farry. I'll try to do better. KK's on the road and Vaderize is probably on the job at the moment. I don't care if these are private boards, as the man who started this thread said, freedome of expression should never be supressed and that is exactly what the MODs purposes are essentially: to repress peoples expressions that they find disagreeable. So long as the content of your posts is within the Terms of Service, you're not going to be banned because your views don't agree with someone in the administration. There are just certain standards on the JC, and those have been put in place by the ownership and administration. As I've said so many times, it's not just what you say that counts, it's how you say it. Two people can be saying essentially the same thing, but one person can be vulgar and rude about it and another can be constructive and thoughtful. I find these practices to be un-American franky and are violating the very principle for which this nation is founded upon. Given that a lot of people on the JC are from countries outside the United States, I don't think that means much. Believe it or not, the United States is irrelevant for a lot of members here. I'm not sure why I'm bothering to respond to this, but it's probably the result of boredom and a quiet morning both on the JC and elsewhere. At any rate, freedom of expression in the United States and anywhere else is certainly important. The government shouldn't impose restrictions on reasonable speech and expression. Nothing is totally free, however, and that should be kept in mind. -----signature----- "Nothing but the rain."
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darth_paul Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 5/16/04 12:48pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	1) Hypotheticaly, if I tell you your ideas are offensive and I want you to shut up, is that a supression of your freedom of speech? No. As a matter of fact, thhat's an expression of your freedom of speech. What you cannot do is legally force me to shut up. But if you disagree with my opinions and you want to announce that I should be silenced, that falls under your personal right to freedom of speech. One thing I think people sometimes forget about freedom of speech is that it entails the freedom of others to attack your speech. 2) Say, I beleive that Ted Kennedy (hes a safe target, right? ) clubs baby seals. If I make a commercial showing doctored photos of Ted Kennedy clubbing baby seals, is that within my rights? I would say that in this circumstance you have to make it very clear to the viewer that the photos are doctored (and by very clear I don't mean illegibly small print flashed for half a second at the bottom of the screen; I do not think it ought to be legal to use small print to convey important information, but that's a debate for another time). Otherwise, you are presenting fantasy as fact in a way that is damaging to Mr. Kennedy. How's this for a distinction? I say that all political speech, or, more generally, speech that is an expression of ideas or opinions, must progress absolutely uninhibited. However, when speech drifts into the realm of purporting to convey facts (that the theatre is on fire, or that Mr. Kennedy clubs baby seals) and those facts are in fact false, then it is in most circumstances (I'm allowing myself wiggle room for later on) appropriate to hold the speaker accountible for the consequences of his untruths. Basically: Any opinion is okay. Straight-out lying is not. Anyone wish to contest that? I'm not totally set on it... -Paul -----signature----- So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.
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Mauler_z Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 5/16/04 12:48pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Thats exactly my point! You repress the way I say things on here! And so what if they're not from the U.S.? More than likely they live in free countries who got the god damned idea from us in the first place!!! We should be able to say whatever we want on here, however we want. If I want to be vulgar and rude about the points I try to make, that should be allowed as a way to express myself. If there is nothing you can do about this, how could I contact the ownership to share my views with them???? -----signature----- To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society. -Theodore Roosevelt
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 5/16/04 12:53pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	We should be able to say whatever we want on here, however we want. If I want to be vulgar and rude about the points I try to make, that should be allowed as a way to express myself. I'm afraid you're out of luck. However, you would probably appreciate Episode-X, where you can be as expressive as you'd like. -----signature----- "Nothing but the rain."
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farraday Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 5/16/04 12:55pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	KW don't repress the boy, I say provide him with the Owners email and wish him the best of luck in his quest for his god given rights. -----signature----- Not photoshopped, digitally enhanced or altered.
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Mauler_z Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 5/16/04 12:57pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Yes, please, give me the email address so i can contact the ownweship.... -----signature----- To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society. -Theodore Roosevelt
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Branthoris Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 5/16/04 1:21pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Fighting words is a very narrow category of speech that is calculated to provoke immediate violence. Under US Supreme Court precedent, it can be regulated so long as it is regulated without discrimination as to content. Banning racist comments is not permissible under the First Amendment. Even banning only those racist comments that constitute fighting words is not allowed, because that would be licensing "one side of a debate to fight freestyle" while "requiring the other to follow Marquis of Queensberry rules". That is not only United States law, but it makes sense in terms of principle. It is not the role of government to tell us how to think, and it has no right to prevent racist views being expressed. In the United Kingdom, racist views probably are banned as "incitement to racial hatred". That is wrong.
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Mortimer_Snerd Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 5/16/04 1:24pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever. No argument here. -----signature----- I am not a fan of the EU, but Darth Talon is ******* hot. "Every time you eat a steak, a hippie loses his hackey sack." --Patton Oswalt "Back in a minute." --Godot
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Darth_Destructo Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 5/16/04 2:28pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Just to summerize (Please correct me if I am wrong): 1) Freedom of Expression (Freedom of Speech, of press, of association, of assembly and petition) is a right granted to anyone governed by the Bill of Rights. 2)Hateful, racist or sexist speech is actually protected as an expression of one's ideals. 2.1) We are ultimately responsible for our own expression, should the general public disagree and decide to 'Express' their own views... :P 3) Anti-Governmental speech is allowed but speech that threatens national security (military secrets, diplomatic secrets) is not. 4) Expression in a non-violent manner is protected; violent expression is not protected. 5) Intending to cause violence or threatening expression is not protected, and is in fact unlawful. 5.1) Dishonest or slandering speech is illegal, but open criticism about a evidenced issue is protected. 6) There is no real distinction between what is considered proper expression, and what is considered improper expression; the line between proper and improper expression is mobile. 7) Various groups decide what the public can or cannot see, hear or know (film rating censors, watch groups). 7.1) Private ownership entails rules and regulations that may differ from the national standard. This board for instance: The Terms of Service (TOS) govern this board instead of the Bill of Rights, and so what is deemed appropriate 'outside'. may not be deemed apropriate 'inside' here. Just my two cents: The persons who feel that they are being repressed in this board have the right to start their own board (or stand on a soap box in times square)and condamn the actions of the ownership, the administration and the moderators of this site but ultimately, there is a 'standard' that we all agreed to when we signed up to join this board. I'm not trying to kiss anything up, and I still stand by my belief that Freedom of Expression should never be supressed, ever, but I do believe that sort of posting a nice, clear and intelligent thread in Communications to voice your opinion(s), there is very little else you can do. Imho, 'liabilty' is a strong self-censore. Thank you everyone for your comments and have a nice weekend. E. -----signature----- Lazy Quote System ©2002 Darth_Destructo a. "Indeed." b. "Great post! I almost understood it!" c. "Hmm... leather..." d. "Damn my typos!" <(._.)> Yoda will save us all. <('_')>
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Psychotic_Sith Registered: Apr '04	Date Posted: 5/17/04 2:22am Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Agreed. As long as it isn't directly slanderous towards another human and meant to hurt a particular person or group of people, then it is fine. Don't like the newest Friday the 13th movie because it has a little T&A and gore in it? You don't have to watch it. Don't like my heavy metal? Don't listen to it. Don't try to prostelyze me or censor what I enjoy, and we'll get along just fine. -----signature----- Their Dead-Smile Lips Turn On The T.V. While Urban Gravestones Scrape The Sky... Rising Over Marionette Cities And Marionette Skies! This is Episode 666... Destination: Chaos! ~ In Flames
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Darth Geist Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 5/17/04 2:44am Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	So now I will state openly that I think the MODs should be abolished and free speech be allowed on these boards. Leave a board unmoderated, and you end up with a bunch of pre-teen illiterates shouting "TEH MATRIX IS A JEISH CONSPIRACY!!!1!!1!" and slinging animal porn. That's out there, if you want it, but I like it here. -----signature----- When George Lucas was in his early twenties, he was wrecking his health in the burning Tunisian desert, risking a new and fragile career on a movie no one believed in. When I was in my early twenties, I was complaining on the Internet about George Lucas.
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Branthoris Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 5/17/04 10:51am Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever. - Date Edited: 5/17/04 10:53am (1 edits total) Edited By: Branthoris
	The principle of freedom of expression, as applied to a bulletin board, is totally different than as applied to a government. It is not the role of government to regulate the 'marketplace of ideas' at all. But the admins of this board have the right and duty to make it a civilised and pleasant place. Pure opinions should really be regulated neither by bulletin board owners, nor by the government. But it's acceptable for pure rubbish, for instance to be censored by bulletin board owners--the board is not a trash can--whereas a government has no right to act as a quality controller. Free speech is not an absolute principle, but a principle with necessary exceptions. And those exceptions are much wider on a private bulletin board than on society as a whole. Having moderators is not objectionable in any way, and I have very rarely seen them act so as to suppress viewpoints.
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Vezner Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 5/17/04 11:25am Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	glances at sig -----signature----- Say NO to socialism Say NO to more government control of your life Say NO to runaway government spending http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQ2pk7kkm4&feature=player_profilepage Vote NO to Obama in 2012 and NO to his congressional lackies in 2010
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Branthoris Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 5/17/04 3:08pm Subject: RE: Freedom of Expression should never be supressed. Ever.
	Vezner: I fail to see how Christianity has been denied freedom of religion, and free speech does include the right to utter offensive opinions in public, providing they aren't fighting words.
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