Author Topic: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Jediflyer  7245 posts
Registered: Dec '01
6475_Corran Horn
Date Posted: 5/27/04 7:51pm Subject: The State of Prisons in U.S.
This thread is for discussing everything regarding prisons in the U.S. (as you could probably assume from the title). To tell you the truth, I don't know very much about them at all, but I think an awareness of issues surrounding them is very important for a reason which you will see in a second.

Some issues I think would be good for discussion:
-How nice should the cells be (cable T.V. and weightlifting?)
-Guard abuse
-Prisoner-on-Prisoner abuse
-High ratio of minority's in prisons (causes and effects on society when they get out)

But the first issue I want to discuss is what made me create this thread in the first place:1 out of 75 men in the U.S. live in prison or jail:


America's prison population grew by 2.9 percent last year, to almost 2.1 million inmates, with one of every 75 men living in prison or jail.

The inmate population continued its rise despite a fall in the crime rate and many states' efforts to reduce some sentences, especially for low-level drug offenders.

The report issued Thursday by the Justice Department (news - web sites)'s Bureau of Justice Statistics attributes much of the increase to get-tough policies enacted during the 1980s and '90s, such as mandatory drug sentences, "three-strikes-and-you're-out" laws for repeat offenders, and "truth-in-sentencing laws" that restrict early releases.

Whether that's good or bad depends on whom is asked.

"The prison system just grows like a weed in the yard," said Vincent Schiraldi, executive director of the Justice Policy Institute, which pushes for a more lenient system.

Without reforms, he said, prison populations will continue to grow "almost as if they are on autopilot, regardless of their high costs and disappointing crime-control impact."

But Attorney General John Ashcroft (news - web sites) said the report shows the success of efforts to take hard-core criminals off the streets.

"It is no accident that violent crime is at a 30-year low while prison population is up," Ashcroft said. "Violent and recidivist criminals are getting tough sentences while law-abiding Americans are enjoying unprecedented safety."



So, there are a couple sub-issues within this issue.
-The high number of men in prison as a percentage of the male population itself (further sub-issues of this would include the large number of people deprived of their right to vote)
-Whether this shows success as Ashcroft claims or
-Whether this means are prison system is expanding out of control.

As for myself, I was pretty suprised when I saw that 1 out of 75 men is in prison right now. I new the number was high, but I think that puts it in perspective. Not knowing all that much about the criminal justice system (I know, I'm a slacker), I don't know whether this means we are keeping criminals off the streets, or if it means that our laws are just to strict.

*Sidenote: drug laws will probably come up in the course of the discussion, and rightfully so, but don't foget this thread exists.


 

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Jediflyer  7245 posts
Registered: Dec '01
6475_Corran Horn
Date Posted: 5/30/04 9:58am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Where is everybody?

 

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Special_Fred  1808 posts
Registered: Jul '03
40732_Palpatine Sunglasses
Date Posted: 5/30/04 10:36am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
It's truly appalling to see our tax dollars paying for prisons that are more like country clubs for the prisoners. Things like TV's, weight rooms, and computer access make prison seem like more of a luxury than a punishment. I believe all prisoners should have to do hard manual labor EVERY DAY to pay for their room and board (instead of the State taxing law-abiding citizens to pay for it). Also, all criminals should be required to make some form of monetary payments to their victims as a partial compensation.

And yes, our unconstitutional drug laws are the main reason for prison overcrowding, but that's for the other thread...

 

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Crix-Madine  4012 posts
Registered: Aug '00
6321_Crix Madine
Date Posted: 5/30/04 11:37am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Hey Special_Fred

Have you ever even spent time inside a prison?

 

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beezel26  18127 posts
Registered: May '03
15809_Yoda
Date Posted: 5/30/04 11:54am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Are they being abused, yes they are. do we care, maybe but its about how you get there. Most of these guys break the law. They break the law. Its there fault they are there. Do the guards deserve better, yes they do. What needs to be done is to fundamently shift how we keep the prison population to keep the guards safe. If you have to put them in suspended animation so be it. It makes a quieter prison. Seriously though how a prison is run needs to be addressed. Does manual labor work better. Maybe it might give them something to do.

 

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DarthSithLord  1145 posts
Registered: Jul '01
6609_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/30/04 10:36pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Ok, Alot of prisoners in the United States, are living better than alot of people in the middle class..... thats a shameful thing, Guility prisoners (alot of them, not all of them); are living better than innocent hobos on the streets?


and Billions of American Tax dollars go to them, to Feed them, the give them internet, to give them all this stuff, the prisoners that is. Prisoners most of the time eat better than Hobos..... thats sad.


Prisons need to cut down on inmate storage, and increase the Death Penality chances by far. You kill in non self defence, and for revengefully type reasons, you sould be forgiven of that crime, but killed for it. thats that.

You kill someone with no attentional vengefully feelings, and feel no hate towards that person you killed, ya, you can be forgiven and possibely let go.

but I still think Prisons need to crack down on the entertianment, and be more strict on the labor and such. and Increase the Death Penality by far, but dont over use it.


Thats that.

 

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Crix-Madine  4012 posts
Registered: Aug '00
6321_Crix Madine
Date Posted: 5/30/04 11:48pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
DarthSithLord,

You call yourself a Christian, yet you want to solve murder with murder and throw out any chance of forgiveness?

 

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DarthSithLord  1145 posts
Registered: Jul '01
6609_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 5/31/04 11:15am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
No Man, I wouldn't throw out any chance of forgiveness I'd forgive them no matter what, but you still gotta pay the price for what ya did.


Forgive Always.


Revelation 10:13 "Those who kill with the Sword, must die by the sword." Sword not meaning litterary, but rather symbolism. Sword=Deadly Force.



I'd give them so many chances to be forgiven.......but I'd also have to lean towards, death penality....... I just wouldn't wanna over use it. but use it more often.

 

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I'm Roman Catholic, Conservative, Republican and a Patriotic USA Citizen
Favorite Star Wars Characters "Anakin Skywalker/ Darth Vader" "Luke" "Obi Wan" and "Yoda"
1 John 4:8 "For He who does not know Love, does not know God, For God is Love."
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Crix-Madine  4012 posts
Registered: Aug '00
6321_Crix Madine
Date Posted: 5/31/04 11:18am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Well put sir, I am impressed you backed that up eloquently. Unlike many people here.

However, I still believe two wrongs don't make a right.

 

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darkcide  1786 posts
Registered: Jun '03
7258_Imperial Guard<br>Action Figure
Date Posted: 5/31/04 12:12pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
I wouldn't say that prisoners have it easy. The fact that you can be stabbed or gang-raped at any time isn't the most pleasing thought in the world.

 

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Jediflyer  7245 posts
Registered: Dec '01
6475_Corran Horn
Date Posted: 5/31/04 12:15pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Another question I thought of while reading the discussion:

Should prisons be about punishment or rehabilitation?

I lean towards rehabilitation myself, but I am going to guess that most people in this thread do not.

 

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Darth-Jaguar  7264 posts
Registered: Jun '00
7413_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 5/31/04 1:18pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
I think it depends on the crime they comitted and their mental state on whether they could or should be rehabilited. Some should be able to get out in time, while others shouldn't ever get out.

I do think they get it too easy in some respects like having TVs, books, radios, time to weightlift, etc. They should have to earn things by doing hard labor, keeping out of trouble, as well as other stuff.

They should also have to repay the companies they wronged, victims or the victims' families through whatever the courts, prisons, companies and the families decide.

 

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Crix-Madine  4012 posts
Registered: Aug '00
6321_Crix Madine
Date Posted: 5/31/04 1:34pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S. - Date Edited: 5/31/04 1:37pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Crix-Madine
Very true darkcide, some people here are painting the picture that prison is a vacation, and it's enjoyable.

It's not, not at all. Anyone who says and complains about such things is speaking from the perspective of a total outsider that has never had any experience or understanding of the prison system/concept. I think it would be wise to educate yourselves on it before making broad statements you might later retract.

I agree with you Jediflyer, it should be more focussed on rehabilitation then punishment. It is important that they understand what they did is wrong, but it's also more important to correct the situation. Lining people up on death row is not the answer.

 

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anakin_girl  14977 posts
Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR
Charlotte , NC

Registered: Oct '00
48285_Good Morning Galaxy
Date Posted: 5/31/04 4:08pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
My father is the newspaper editor in a small town in eastern North Carolina. Once when I was in college, I went with him to interview the sheriff regarding the new prison in town. The sheriff commented that opening the new prison was delayed. My dad asked why, and the answer was that the televisions were sitting outside the bars of the cells, and it was considered "cruel and unusual punishment" for the prisoners to have to watch television through the bars.

What the hell?

There are some law-abiding citizens who can't afford television, and especially not cable. Why should people who have broken the law be given privileges that law-abiding citizens don't have?

I also don't think it should be "cruel and unusual punishment" to have non-air-conditioned prisons, and I once read of a lawsuit from inmates regarding this very thing--the prison wasn't being kept at exactly 68 degrees.

I guess I should complain about "cruel and unusual punishment" every time I visit my parents. They keep their air conditioner on 80 degrees. *pants, sweats, and fans self* tongue

Here's what I think:


  • Prisoners should not live better than the average homeless person, other than having a roof over their heads.

  • We taxpayers should not be paying for medical care, cable television, Internet, or air conditioning for prisoners--not when we aren't paying for it for everyone else. I have heard stories of ordinary citizens in third-world countries who dream of being in jail in the United States.

  • Prisoners can and should earn their own money by doing manual labor in prison to support their upkeep.

  • As someone has already said, we should not be crowding prisons with people who are using drugs. Unless they are driving drunk or high (in which case, lock them up and throw away the key), leave them alone. They are not hurting anyone, other than possibly themselves.

  • Prisoner-on-prisoner abuse is not right, however, it does serve as a deterrent for people who might not otherwise care about going to prison. And I think Jeffrey Dahmer deserved what he got.

  • The guards have no business abusing the prisoners, and any guard who does so should be fired. It's not like you don't know what you're going to be dealing with when you take the job as a prison guard. Don't do it if it's going to traumatize you so much that you resort to abuse.

  • Prisoners should get balanced meals, but unless it is their last meal on Earth, they should not get steak or lobster. Cheap food only.

  • I only believe in the death penalty for the most extreme offenders, such as Timothy McVeigh or Osama Bin Laden. One reason is this: the way the system is set up, the richer you are, the more likely you are to get a lighter sentence. Court-appointed lawyers aren't as well-paid or experienced as Johnny Cochrane, and generally aren't as good (although I'm sure there are exceptions). If O.J. Simpson had been as poor as Gary Graham of Texas, he would have suffered the same fate. Also, if you accidentally convict and execute an innocent person, there is no turning back. There is a man in North Carolina who was recently released after serving 22 years for a murder he didn't commit. You can't give that man his life back. Imagine if they had killed him. As long as justice is controlled by the pursestrings, we should not have the death penalty.

  • Lastly--prisoners do have a lot of luxuries that I don't think they should have, but even still, let's not pretend prison is a walk in the park, not that it should be. Prisoners have to ask permission to do everything--even pee. I heard this from a federal prosecutor who came to talk to my students last week about the penalties for bringing a firearm to school.

 

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Texas_Cowboy  220 posts
Registered: May '04
14795_Yoda Cowboy
Date Posted: 5/31/04 4:19pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Prisons and punishment should be a lot more harsh. We need to hang 'em out in the streets like we used to instead of spending so much tax dollars to strap 'em to a table and injecting 'em with the stuff that kills 'em. We need to lock 'em up in a small cell by themselves and give them little to eat, but enough to live. No tv, visiters, or weight lifting. They need to be punished, not go to some retreat.

 

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Guinastasia  10408 posts
Registered: Jun '02
40328_Mara Jade
Date Posted: 5/31/04 9:38pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Well, they do need SOME recreation, enough to keep them from going insane. Books-keep 'em reading, that's always good.

But just basic stuff. Simple, army type accomodations.

I don't think prison should be a place where people come out worse than they were when they went in-which seems to be the case nowadays.

 

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