Jedi Council Forums - The State of Prisons in U.S.

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Author	Topic: The State of Prisons in U.S.
Crix-Madine Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 6/1/04 8:53pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	AG, did you read the last line of my last post? No, you're not. You're going to come out an angry, bitter person who's probably more likely to commit another crime, possibly just as bad or worse. And Texas_Cowboy, you people down in texas zap people every other week. If you really enjoy killing people, join the army. Killing a murderer totally defeats the purpose of condeming them in the first place. Solving violence with violence is not the answer. -----signature----- The will is everything. If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. Are you ready to begin?
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anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 6/1/04 8:56pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Which line? "Stupid"? -----signature----- "A person should not believe in an -ism, a person should believe in himself." Ferris Bueller
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Texas_Cowboy Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/1/04 9:28pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	And Texas_Cowboy, you people down in texas zap people every other week. That's right, don't mess with Texas. If you really enjoy killing people, join the army. That's what I plan on doing. Killing a murderer totally defeats the purpose of condeming them in the first place. No it doesn't. Solving violence with violence is not the answer. Hell yeah it its. -----signature----- Don't Mess With Texas: God Blessed Texas With his Own Hands Re-Elect Bush 2004 Remember the Alamo Remember Goliad Dios Bendice América Why can't we all just get a longneck
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anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 6/1/04 9:32pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	In Texas, and where I come from, "He needed killin'" is a valid defense for murder. I Jeff Foxworthy -----signature----- "A person should not believe in an -ism, a person should believe in himself." Ferris Bueller
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MaceWinducannotdie Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/1/04 9:50pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S. - Date Edited: 6/1/04 9:54pm (2 edits total) Edited By: MaceWinducannotdie
	Texas_Cowboy are you for real? As in not some Democrat's sock puppet? At any rate, I'm not sure Texas has all that low crime, so I wouldn't be so quick to welcome "Justice, Chuck Norris and Dubya and Saddam style" to my native Minnesota. -----signature----- Talk is cheap and you're causing massive deflation.
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Texas_Cowboy Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/1/04 9:58pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Yeah, I'm for real. Why? -----signature----- Don't Mess With Texas: God Blessed Texas With his Own Hands Re-Elect Bush 2004 Remember the Alamo Remember Goliad Dios Bendice América Why can't we all just get a longneck
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Crix-Madine Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 6/1/04 11:30pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Hey Cowboy, do yourself a favor and don't join the army. Go to school instead, it'll be better for in the longterm and hopefully you could learn a few things in the process. Better yet, go to school outside of Texas. And Dallas has one of the highest crime rates in America, among several other Texas cities. Do you think there is a reason for this folks? -----signature----- The will is everything. If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. Are you ready to begin?
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anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 6/2/04 4:52am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Mace and Crix: I'm serious--what exactly would you suggest for America's prison system? I asked Mace this, but the only thing he mentioned was a century--pretty broad-based. If you think the current system, with cable TV, air conditioning and Internet, is OK, why? Why do you think murderers and rapists deserve these things? Or do you think most people in prison are innocent? In which case, what would you suggest to revamp the court system? -----signature----- "A person should not believe in an -ism, a person should believe in himself." Ferris Bueller
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Texas_Cowboy Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/2/04 8:00am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	And Dallas has one of the highest crime rates in America, among several other Texas cities. Do you think there is a reason for this folks? Yeah, we are to leniant on our punishment. Criminals need to be treated harder and harder. -----signature----- Don't Mess With Texas: God Blessed Texas With his Own Hands Re-Elect Bush 2004 Remember the Alamo Remember Goliad Dios Bendice América Why can't we all just get a longneck
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Texas_Cowboy Registered: May '04	Date Posted: 6/2/04 8:06am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Go to school instead, it'll be better for in the longterm and hopefully you could learn a few things in the process. Better yet, go to school outside of Texas. I've been going to school for 12 years, and I don't need you telling me what to do. And you got no right to critisize me, I haven't done that to you. So just why do you feel criminals should be living in country clubs? -----signature----- Don't Mess With Texas: God Blessed Texas With his Own Hands Re-Elect Bush 2004 Remember the Alamo Remember Goliad Dios Bendice América Why can't we all just get a longneck
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Crix-Madine Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 6/2/04 10:14am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Just trying to offer you some advice, that's all. If you don't want to listen to it that's fine, but I think you'd be better off thinking about school over the army. And prisons are not country clubs, I don't know how and where you people are coming off with this argument. Have you ever even been inside a prison? Have you spoken with former convicts who have spent a fair amount of time there? It's not something they enjoy, you need to realize that. -----signature----- The will is everything. If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. Are you ready to begin?
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darth_paul Registered: Apr '00	Date Posted: 6/2/04 10:44am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Yes, anakin_girl and I basically see the ideal functioning of the criminal justice system about the same, complete with the idea that only violent offenders belong in jail (I have other ways of dealing with financial criminals, but that's another story for anothher day) -- she may be a tiny bit more Draconian than I, but at heart, our philosophies are similar. Certainly, I'm not comparing prisons to country clubs. But I don't have air conditioning, and it steams me that I'm paying for felons to have it. Likewise, cable TV and the Internet are strictly luxuries. They are in no way essential to a person's basic survival. And consequently, we should not be offering them to prisoners. I suppose if a prisoner wanted to pay for cable television and Internet access that would be one thing, but certainly, we shouldn't be offering them on the taxpayer's dollar. if you're going to offer me an argument about escapism as essential to basic mental health, I might be able to accept that. In that case, let them read books. Many prisons hahve pretty decent libraries already, so little added cost. And a book is a one-time fee, while we pay for Internet and television montly. Furthermore, and I may be revealing my prejudices here, I tend to think that books have the potential for more salutary effects than television or a lot of web sites. At the very least, it's easy to monitor/control what prisoners read in books than what they encounter by chance on television and the Internet, which allows an opportunity to direct the growth of their thought. (Don't want to expose a prisoner to information about jailbreaks, for example. Easy enough not to stock any books on the subject. But you'd better hope you're keeping a close eye on the TV schedule to avoid showing such programming, and you've just got to trust your likely insufficient filtering software to keep the prisoner form unearthing detailed how-tos online.) Pretty much, I think prisoners should be given what they need to stay alive. Unless you do plan to have them work to pay for their keep (which I think should absolutely be policy), then there is no reason to offer them anything beyond what's necessary for survival. As for those of you crying "rehabilitation" - I don't know if you propose a different system, but the one we have now sure isn't working where rehabilitation is concerned. According to the Department of Justice, about 68% of people released from prison are arrested for a felony or misdemeanor within three years; ultimately, fully half of those are convicted and a quarter go to jail again. Considering that in 2001 only about 2.7% of people had ever served time in prison, that's a significant deviation and doesn't speak highly of any claim to rehabilitation we might make now. I tend to doubt rehabilitation; I view prison primarily as a deterrent and a punishment. -Paul -----signature----- So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.
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Vaderize03 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 6/2/04 10:45am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Call me a liberal, but y'know, if my government is going to lock me up and deprive me of my freedoms (deserved or not), I think I am entitled to basic protection from predators. I mean, I couldn't go around raping other men on the street, why does that fly in prison? Peace, V-03 -----signature----- "Bring your pretty face to my axe....." B-O-H-I-C-A !! (that was funny DM!) "I'm what Willis was talking about"
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Vezner Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 6/2/04 11:18am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S. - Date Edited: 6/2/04 11:20am (1 edits total) Edited By: Vezner
	And Texas_Cowboy, you people down in texas zap people every other week. If you really enjoy killing people, join the army. Killing a murderer totally defeats the purpose of condeming them in the first place. Solving violence with violence is not the answer. I fully support the Death Penalty if there is no doubt about the guilt of the offender. Cold blooded or mass murderers should not be able to live off of my tax dollars for the rest of their miserable lives. If they killed people, they should be killed themselves as punishment. Now if it is second degree murder, I'm not so inclined to say "hang 'em" but they should definately do hard time. Oh, and BTW, prisons should not be a "pleasant" place to live in. Making it suck is what makes people not want to go there. Making it "fun" is defeating the purpose, wouldn't you say? I say we should take their cable TV and any other fun leisure time that they have away. If someone does a crime, they should have to suffer a bit while they do the time. Maybe then they wont be so inclined to be a repeat offender. -----signature----- Say NO to socialism Say NO to more government control of your life Say NO to runaway government spending http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQ2pk7kkm4&feature=player_profilepage Vote NO to Obama in 2012 and NO to his congressional lackies in 2010
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MaceWinducannotdie Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/2/04 11:34am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S. - Date Edited: 6/2/04 11:38am (1 edits total) Edited By: MaceWinducannotdie
	First off, cowboy, do what you want with your life. But don't act like 12 years of public school in Texas makes you know everything. That's just annoying. Now for the long rant on the main topic. Prisons nice? How come everyone wants out of them? I'm under the impression most country club prisons are white-collar crime joints (though even those guys want out, presumably because they prefer their private country clubs, not that their prisons need to be that opulent, I admit). No, things don't need to be that nice, but I don't see what the big deal is if there's air conditioning. Hell, I could make the case that in hot enough weather, with nowhere to go to cool down (can't waltz into a coffee shop with AC like anyone on the street can), it's the same thing as some of the borderline torture techniques we've heard so much about. Just cuz' there's no broom handle or blow torch doesn't make it an acceptable practice to me. Why do I say that? There's no reason for it. It's not even some crappy attempt to extract information. No deterrent. It just doesn't work that way. (And I'm curious what cowboy thinks about Texas being "tougher" than a "soft" state like Minnesota, and still having lotsa more crime). I don't believe in the state as a tool for revenge. Bad idea bringing that crap into it. In fact, bad idea to think of life as a zero sum game where you only win when someone else loses. Prison is about prevention, not anyone's little Punisher fantasies. As for cable and internet, I don't care if there's limited use. Theoretically it's not that much different from reading a book, and it doesn't have to be that expensive (And don't prisoners do work inside the prison? Think of the laundry rooms in all those movies. In a sense isn't that already paying for some privileges?). Also, anakin_girl, despite our best efforts no one is ever always going to guaranteed to be wrongfully convicted. Guess it's too bad for all those innocent raped/killed/tortured prisoners, huh? And you're never going to agree with every law on the books, so be prepared for those precious political prisoners of yours to feel the collateral damage of your wrath. Of course, you're talking about your ideal society, but I sassume under that we wouldn't have any crimes committed, now would we? I don't know if you propose a different system, but the one we have now sure isn't working where rehabilitation is concerned. Gee, I can see why you got into Harvard. Duh, it's not working as rehabilitation. That's because no real effort goes into rehab either-- not that it's a magic wand, but it can help somewhat and even I'm not cynical enough to deny everyone wins when it works. (Harvard comment was honestly meant as a good-natured jibe. Actually, you seem pretty smart. You're just completely wrong about politics is all ) End Rant. In closing, I think it's pretty loony to think a brutal prison system accomplishes anything except this raw animal vengeance that I'm frankly shocked to see so much of in Star Wars fans. I mean, do you folks just watch to see Vader choke, torture, and carbon-freeze prisoners? -----signature----- Talk is cheap and you're causing massive deflation.
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