Jedi Council Forums - The State of Prisons in U.S.

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 - Previous | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: The State of Prisons in U.S.
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 6/3/04 2:41pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	I must have missed the scene where Carl Lee killed the perpetrators' entire families. I must have missed the scene where Anakin stopped by a day care center on his way out of town and killed there for fun. -----signature----- "A person should not believe in an -ism, a person should believe in himself." Ferris Bueller
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Vezner Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 3:09pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	As far as I'm concerned, everyone who thinks Anakin was "psycho" thinks that what the Tuskens did was perfectly OK and they should be allowed to get away with it. To be fair here, the only thing I had a problem with was Anakin killing the children and every adult Tusken in the camp, regardless of whether or not they had anything to do with the kidnapping. Some of those Tuskens may have actually been against the kidnapping but could do nothing about it. Now I don't know much about Tusken society or anything but I do think that murdering innocents, especially children, was wrong. Otherwise I fully sympothize with Anakin in that scene. -----signature----- Say NO to socialism Say NO to more government control of your life Say NO to runaway government spending http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQ2pk7kkm4&feature=player_profilepage Vote NO to Obama in 2012 and NO to his congressional lackies in 2010
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
MaceWinducannotdie Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 3:30pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S. - Date Edited: 6/3/04 4:54pm (4 edits total) Edited By: MaceWinducannotdie
	anakin_girl I must have missed the scene where Anakin stopped by a day care center on his way out of town and killed there for fun. There's a +1 post if ever I saw one. I guess Anakin's admission that he killed all the children can't be trusted. Are we to assume Anakin/Vader isn't Luke's fther because we don't see him taking a paternity test. Better yet, are we to assume that there's no way he could possibly be Luke's father because we never see him impregnate Padme? I guess it's impossible that we don't see this because Star Wars is a PG movie that can't show sex scenes (or the dismemberment of children). The kind of mercy you're talking about would turn us all into a bunch of wusses and doormats. Respectfully, screw that. And if you are implying that I am either one of those, my response would be screw you too. If someone tries to hurt me, yeah I'm okay with messing them up. But once someone is already stopped I'm not the sort to get all Saddam on their rear. I make no apology for thinking schadenfreude is unhealthy and should not be embodied by the law. For those of you who don't know the story, a couple of redneck thugs raped his daughter. Carl Lee, Jackson's character, knew that because they lived in a racist part of Mississippi, the rednecks would probably not be convicted for the rape. So he bought a gun and killed them. Similar to what Anakin did-- Did this Carl Lee fellow kill their kids, too? Would you say your children (hypothetically speaking, as I don't know or care if anyone here has kids) forfeit their human rights for your wrongdoings? You seem to ignore that in Anakin. Now, you could argue that Shmi's death was extenuating circumstances and excuses the child-killing, but that's ridiculous. Everyone has their reasons for wrongdoing, but allowing them to become excuses would turn us into (in your words) wusses and doormats. Do we just excuse any pedophile who was himself molested as a child? Back to my point about Anakin killing the children, it ties into the real world because the justice system makes mistakes. And it always will. So if you are for the state beating/raping/killing/torturing prisoners, you are for the state doing that to no small amount of innocent people. I think that's the last thing I have to say in this thread, as I sense the argument is a broken record. -----signature----- Talk is cheap and you're causing massive deflation.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 3:36pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	I wonder what Gandhi would have to say about some of the vengeance and punishment advocated here. -----signature----- Opposing Scrooge Economics since 2009
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Vezner Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 3:42pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Why? Is Ghandi the ultimate authority on morality or something? I'm not saying that I disagree with him or anything but I think that trying to use him as the ultimate example of right and wrong is a bit much. -----signature----- Say NO to socialism Say NO to more government control of your life Say NO to runaway government spending http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MQ2pk7kkm4&feature=player_profilepage Vote NO to Obama in 2012 and NO to his congressional lackies in 2010
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
MaceWinducannotdie Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 3:50pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Well, there is sort of new vein to the topic. As far as Gandhi. Ultimate authority on right and wrong? No, but a lot better than most religious bigwigs. And Vezner, I think you do disagree with Gandhi QED. -----signature----- Talk is cheap and you're causing massive deflation.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Crix-Madine Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 6/3/04 4:09pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	KnightWriter, great point. -----signature----- The will is everything. If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. Are you ready to begin?
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
anakin_girl Title: Founding Member & Retired FF CR Charlotte , NC Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 6/3/04 4:53pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	And if you are implying that I am either one of those, my response would be screw you too. Woo-hoo--this argument is getting a tad bit personal and inflammatory, is it not? By the way, no thanks--my husband does that just fine. As far as Ghandi, etc.--again, I'll ask you guys, do you really want to make murderers comfortable and treat them like they did nothing wrong? -----signature----- "A person should not believe in an -ism, a person should believe in himself." Ferris Bueller
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 4:55pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	My point is simply to raise the question of what good punishment and harsh living conditions and so on actually does. Does it somehow improve society? Is it productive or meaningful? Does it deter future problems? If you want to stop the cycle of violence, it would seem prudent not to add fuel to the fire, even in prison. -----signature----- Opposing Scrooge Economics since 2009
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
MaceWinducannotdie Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 4:57pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S. - Date Edited: 6/3/04 5:05pm (1 edits total) Edited By: MaceWinducannotdie
	Woo-hoo--this argument is getting a tad bit personal and inflammatory, is it not? Ah, but I said if. This gives you an out on the condition that you aren't calling me a wuss. And no wuss would be as ready to repel potential insults to his honor with such legalesee jujitsu as I. By the way, no thanks--my husband does that just fine. If it's getting too personal for you, then why share such information? -----signature----- Talk is cheap and you're causing massive deflation.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Darth Geist Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 6/3/04 5:14pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Say what you want about preventing the rise of future criminals; what's the best thing to do with all the ones we already have? -----signature----- When George Lucas was in his early twenties, he was wrecking his health in the burning Tunisian desert, risking a new and fragile career on a movie no one believed in. When I was in my early twenties, I was complaining on the Internet about George Lucas.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Vaderize03 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 6/3/04 6:13pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	Ladies and gentlemen, it is getting a little too hot in here. I don't like fog, and I hate steam baths. So let's try and stay on track. Thank you. V-03 -----signature----- "Bring your pretty face to my axe....." B-O-H-I-C-A !! (that was funny DM!) "I'm what Willis was talking about"
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Jediflyer Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 6/3/04 7:30pm Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	I think KnightWriter makes a great point. We should be focusing on what is best for society, not what makes us feel the best. -----signature----- As long as the differences and diversities of mankind exist, democracy must allow for compromise, for accommodation, and for the recognition of differences. -Eugene McCarthy There are no dialogues, only intersecting monologues -Mark Twain
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
annikinstarkiller Registered: Jul '99	Date Posted: 6/4/04 12:19am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	anyone considering a more graduated system? Light punishment for small civil infractions and the like....Harsher for murderers and that sort. Not too differnt i imagine than what works now. One difference i would moke is to adapt it over time. Start off with with sterner treatment, but as the sentence progress actually start rehabilitating the prisoner to society. and of course if a parole wont ever happen, this wont be necessary. -----signature----- Summer vacation! Annikinstarkiller: self-proclaimed holder of the most visits to fewest post record at TF.N
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Branthoris Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 6/4/04 1:42am Subject: RE: The State of Prisons in U.S.
	To begin with, simply looking at the raw numbers of the prision population and concluding that less people should be sent there is a fallacious argument. You should look at why they are there. If, for example, a person is serving a 25 year sentence for petty theft, one has to ask whether that is a productive use of prison space, or an acceptable punishment to have imposed. I think that the current US prison population is entirely unacceptable--but that's because many long-term prisoners are there pursuant to mandatory sentences for drug offences, or three-strikes laws, both of which call for horrifically disproportionate sentencing. I think that the philosophy of 'incapacitation' is a tremendously damaging one. I do not think it acceptable to take 25 years of someone's life away because they have committed theft three times, on the basis that wide application of such a policy will result in a statistical reduction in crime. There are other methods of crime reduction--deterrence through proportionate sentences, rehabilitation following release from prison--that do not involve sending people to prison and forgetting about them because they may commit further minor offences. Even with respect to serious crimes--violent and sexual offences--continuous review by a parole board, after a proportionate minimum term has been served, is better than setting prison terms which go far beyond what is proportionate for the offence concerned, simply to achieve 'incapacitation'. If a person has served sufficient prison time to satisfy punishment and deterrence, and does not remain a risk to the public, there is no purpose served in keeping him in prison.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 - Previous | Next | Reload