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Author	Topic: Official 2004 US Elections Thread
ManoWan Registered: Sep '02	Date Posted: 7/6/04 11:55am Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	Nader the spoiler will no longer be a real factor. Not as many people are going to waste their vote on him. Mark my words. George is going to lose. He has a big fat liability....Dick Cheney. Cheney can barely walk because he keeps shooting himself in the foot. Bush will not be rewarded for the debacle that is the Iraq War. Pack up George! Yaaaaahooooooo! -----signature----- R.I.P Clone Theory. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/mano http://www.cafepress.com/manoreza http://blogs.starwars.com/manowan
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JediSmuggler Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 7/6/04 12:01pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	KnightWriter That is interesting. Nader is accusing the Demcorats of playing dirty tricks, and the Democrats did sue to get him off the ballot in Arizona. It certainly could come back to hurt Kerry, I think. Then again, McCain's support for Bush could put that state out of reach for Kerry. -----signature----- The military-industrial complex has kept America strong and safe.
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/6/04 12:04pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney - Date Edited: 7/6/04 12:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: KnightWriter
	I'm not sure what the dirty tricks are, outside of natural politics. A lot of the signatures were found to be invalid (for one reason or another), and so he was removed from the ballot. Kerry's team just played it smart by recognizing the info they were being given and acting on it. I imagine that all of us here will be able to give some basic reports regarding what's happening in our respective states, and that could be especially interesting on Election Day. Then again, McCain's support for Bush could put that state out of reach for Kerry. As an ardent McCain supporter, his support of Bush is a bummer. I think he's doing it to be the good soldier, and wouldn't mind if Kerry won. -----signature----- Opposing Scrooge Economics since 2009
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Crix-Madine Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 7/6/04 12:11pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	I think Nader may be gone by the time election comes around anyway. He'll tell his supporters to vote for Kerry, especially if they cut some kind of deal which I foresee as highly possible. -----signature----- The will is everything. If you make yourself more than just a man, if you devote yourself to an ideal, you become something else entirely. Are you ready to begin?
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JediSmuggler Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 7/6/04 12:16pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	KnightWriter Perhaps it might be nothing, but I can see this driving up Kerry's negatives a little. Kerry has a charisma gap already. If his campaign plays too much hardball, it could be a situation much like 2000, where Bush will gain in the middle because his opponent is seen as a jerk (reference Gore's conduct in the debates). What's happened to Nader... it looks like a bully. Clearly, more than the minimum wanted Nader on the ballot. They might not vote for Bush over it, but with the Arizona Democratic Party having supported that lawsuit, it may cause them to stay home. -----signature----- The military-industrial complex has kept America strong and safe.
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ShaneP Title: Lucasfilm Projects Gremlin(Manager ) Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 7/6/04 12:17pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney - Date Edited: 7/6/04 12:20pm (2 edits total) Edited By: ShaneP
	Crix, Then why alienate him by trying to keep him off the ballot? That could only encourage him and allow him to play up his "two party/corrupt politics" message. JS, there's always a write-in. KW, yeah the dems "played by the rules". But who wrote those rules? The two parties. The two parties are so full of wanks. -----signature----- Keep Your Words Sweet. You May Have To Eat Them.
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/6/04 12:28pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	Clearly, more than the minimum wanted Nader on the ballot. If it's so clear, why wasn't Nader able to get on the ballot by legitimate means? They might not vote for Bush over it, but with the Arizona Democratic Party having supported that lawsuit, it may cause them to stay home. I doubt it. This is an energized state, and there's plenty of support for both sides. What we need here is hispanic voter turnout, which has always been low. If Kerry can somehow get that (and I hope he sends Edwards out here to help with it), Bush cannot hope to win Arizona. If hispanic voters mostly stay home, Bush has an even to good shot of winning this state. -----signature----- Opposing Scrooge Economics since 2009
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Obi-Wan McCartney Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/6/04 12:51pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney - Date Edited: 7/6/04 1:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Obi-Wan McCartney
	Anyone who has ever worked on an election or reelection campaign knows that what they did to Nader in a few of those states is what any serious political candidate does in ANY race. I can't speak for the various third parties, but both the GOP and the Dem's do it in every single race. They weed out and find as many invalid signitures as they can find. Smuggler, Nader did NOT have enough valid signitures, that is why he isn't on the ballot. EDIT: Well, I gotta give the DNC some credit, they are playing for keeps this year. Check out THIS commercial put out by the Democratic Party, lambasting the President for using McCain in his new commercial by showing all of the negative things McCain has said about Bush and his policies over the years. -----signature----- God Bless J-Rod's Wife! Obi-Wan McCartney: Model Forum Member since 1999! America's Beatles are far better than England's precious Rolling Stones
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JediSmuggler Registered: Jun '99	Date Posted: 7/6/04 1:03pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	Obi-Wan McCarteny This certainly leaves the Democrats with little room to complain about Florida in my book. Seriously, the petitions and signatures were tossed out on technicalities. It might be legit on the ground, but for some folks, it can be used to paint the Kerry campaign and the Democratic party as a bunch of bullies picking on poor Ralph Nader. Nader certainly is questioning the removal, and I have to wonder why it is that in this case, the Democrats are insisting on following the rules when in New Jersey, they asked the state supreme court to DISREGARD the rules when it seemed like they were going to lose a Senate seat. It does seem inconsistent. -----signature----- The military-industrial complex has kept America strong and safe.
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/6/04 1:04pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	If hispanic voters mostly stay home, Bush has an even to good shot of winning this state. Not to pick on you KnightWriter, but this is something that really gets me angry. Why do we care about the Hispanic vote? Is there this one guy out there who takes a poll of all of the Hispanics and cast all the Hispanic votes on one person? Right . . . I'm sick of all this [expletive deleted] racism. If I were Hispanic, I would be extremely offended with all this talk about the Hispanic vote. Someone's ethnicity is no reason to try to get their vote. Just because there happen to be a lot of Hispanics in this country means squat. They're still Americans and they vote as individuals. This makes as much sense to me as a candidate saying that he wants to get the Brunette vote. There are a lot of Hispanics. They're not all fruit pickers in California. I just think that this is stupid and that race should be left out of elections. There are a lot of white people in America. Why aren't politicians trying to get their vote because they're white? Trying to get the vote of minority ethnicities is dumb. It's as dumb to get the black vote as the Hispanic vote and the white vote. -----signature----- "Perhaps Darth Guy will breed some sort of albino shouting gorilla." - Master_Jacen
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Obi-Wan McCartney Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/6/04 1:15pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	I think it's apples and oranges, Smuggler. In Florida, hundreds or thousands of people who were LEGALLY ENTITLED to vote were denied their voice. That is a substantial mistake that was acknowledge. Here, like every Congressional, Senatorial, or other Executive Office seat in every county and state in the Country, party pols went through voter lists to make sure signatures were from REAL people who REALLY live in the jurisdiction. Unless you can somehow prove that misconduct occurred and a substial amount of the signators were removed by mistake, I can't see where there is an inconsistancy. The difference with Florida was that a mistake was made, those people had a legal right to vote. Here, there has been no evidence of any mistake. Basically, what you advocated in your last post was sort of along the lines of saying "well, the GOP screwed up in Florida so that means that the Democrats are wrong to follow standard procedure in Arizona. Coincidently, I have no problem with the GOP who did the exact same thing to conservative third party candidates and the Democrats in every county in America." -----signature----- God Bless J-Rod's Wife! Obi-Wan McCartney: Model Forum Member since 1999! America's Beatles are far better than England's precious Rolling Stones
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 7/6/04 1:22pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney - Date Edited: 7/6/04 1:41pm (2 edits total) Edited By: KnightWriter
	Why do we care about the Hispanic vote? Because it's a tremendous potential bloc of voters in this state that tends to stay home (regardless of the election). If a large number of hispanic voters make it to the ballot box, Arizona will swing to Kerry. There's simply no doubt about it. It's highly uncertain otherwise. If I were Hispanic, I would be extremely offended with all this talk about the Hispanic vote. Given that I could technically be considered part of the hispanic vote, I find it rather flattering. Hispanics tend to be more liberal than conservative (at least here in Arizona), and the number of hispanics in Arizona continues to increase. Trying to get the vote of minority ethnicities is dumb. It's as dumb to get the black vote as the Hispanic vote and the white vote. It may be dumb, but it's also part of life. A lot of politics is "dumb", but that doesn't make it any less important. Also, this is about ethnicity, rather than race. You can be part of an ethnicity without being part of a specific race. -----signature----- Opposing Scrooge Economics since 2009
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dizfactor Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 7/6/04 1:32pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney - Date Edited: 7/6/04 1:33pm (2 edits total) Edited By: dizfactor
	They're still Americans and they vote as individuals. oh, please. no one votes as an individual. people vote, by and large, in blocs, based on race, ethnicity, religion, sex, sexual orientation, age, economic status, geographical region, etc. there are always a small percentage of people who are going to buck the trend of their group, but statistically speaking people's votes are predictable based on that kind of demographic information. people, as much as we sometimes like to think otherwise, are primarily social creatures and products of their culture, not free-thinking rational individuals. tell a professional political statistician your basic census information, and he or she will be able to predict who you're going to vote for with a very high degree of accuracy. -----signature----- "Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century." Julian Dibbell "You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat." Gryph
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ShaneP Title: Lucasfilm Projects Gremlin(Manager ) Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 7/6/04 1:33pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	Liberal or conservative hispanic vote depends on what part of the country KW. -----signature----- Keep Your Words Sweet. You May Have To Eat Them.
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dizfactor Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 7/6/04 1:34pm Subject: RE: It's Unofficially Official: Kerry/Edwards v. Bush/Cheney
	Liberal or conservative hispanic vote depends on what part of the country KW. in Arizona, the Latino vote is primarily Democratic. -----signature----- "Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century." Julian Dibbell "You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat." Gryph
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