Jedi Council Forums - Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)

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Author	Topic: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
Obi-Wan McCartney Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 12/21/04 2:40pm Subject: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Christianophobia by Pat Buchanan 'Tis the season to be jolly." But, as usual, not for all of us. It is the Christmas season, that time in December when all good Christians celebrate the birth of the Savior of mankind, born in a stable in Bethlehem, 2,000 years ago. It is a time of family gatherings and gift-giving, of joyous music and fond memories. For some, it is one of the few days of the year, Easter being the other, when they return to the old church for the feast day that yet retains its hold upon them from childhood. Even many non-believers celebrate, for Christmas joy is contagious. But not for all. For some, it is not too much to say that they hate the idea of Christmas with a deep abiding hate, not just the "Bah, humbug!" dismissal of old Scrooge. They want Christmas dead. As usual, they are busy at work, going to court to get Nativity scenes expunged from public squares, demanding that statues of Mary, Joseph and the infant Jesus be removed from department stores and parades, checking vigilantly to see that any and all caroling at public schools is free of such outrages as "Silent Night." For people such as these, even Santa has become an intolerably divisive figure who must be purged from public life. And this year, again, they are meeting with some success, especially with a business community for whom Christmas has always been about sales volume, not salvation. Target stores have told the Salvation Army it may no longer station volunteers at store entrances, with their red kettles, and solicit charitable contributions for the poor. The 30-year tradition that reaped the Army $9 million a year has been terminated The reason? Says Target, unconvincingly, it is so the company can have a consistent policy of no solicitations outside its stores. But in recent years, the gay lobby has pressured Target to ban the Army because it is Christian and rejects homosexuality as sinful. Now Macy's has stopped using the phrase "Merry Christmas" in all store advertising, replacing it with what Macy's calls the more inclusive "Season's Greetings" and "Happy Holidays." But how is it "inclusive" to exclude the Christians' greeting? Is that not anti-Christian? Why would the Macy's of the "Miracle on 34th Street" do such a thing? Why would Federated Department Stores, Macy's parent company, impose such a policy? By Newton's laws of motion, an object moving in a given direction will continue to do so unless an outside force intervenes. What hidden force intervened to cause Macy's to reverse course and suddenly sever its ties to Christmas? Who insisted that Macy's cease to mention Christmas, the holiday around which its selling season is built? It is hard to believe some Macy's executive took it upon himself to make so offensive a decision as to expunge "Merry Christmas" from the store, when so many of Macy's most loyal shoppers were certain to be disheartened and hurt. Who is trying to kill Christmas? It needs to be said. What we are witnessing here are hate crimes against Christianity – the manifestations, the symptoms of a sickness of the soul, a disease a Vatican diplomat correctly calls "Christianophobia," the fear and loathing of all things Christian, coupled with a fanatic will to expunge from the public life of the West all reminders that ours was once a Christian civilization and America once a Christian country. Americans are among the most tolerant of peoples. No one demands that any dissenting adult or child be made to say the Pledge of Allegiance to the flag, or join in Christmas caroling, or be forced to say a prayer before class, or go to church at Christmas. The Christian majority only asks that they be free to be themselves, to exercise their freedom to express their love of their Savior as the First Amendment has always guaranteed. But what are we to make of Maplewood, N.J., where the Columbus High School brass ensemble was ordered not to play a single Christmas carol at their holiday concert, not even an instrumental version. Parents and students were outraged. "This is censorship at its most basic level," said student Ryan Dahn. Correct, Ryan. In Denver, officials of the annual Parade of Lights refused to permit in the parade a float carrying the banner "Merry Christmas" with members of the Faith Bible Chapel congregation, who were to sing Christmas carols. Approved was a float sponsored by Two Souls, an American Indian group that considers homosexuality holy. While Christmas often brings forth the best in some of us, because of who and what is being celebrated, that is not true for all of us. For some, it brings forth the purest malevolence. Why? Sadly, because they do not know Him. Nevertheless, Merry Christmas – to all. ================================================ Personally, even though I am not a Christian, I enjoy the Christmas season. Whatever my beliefs about Christianity and prayer in schools, I'm not happy about attempts to stop people from expressing their Christmas Spirit. I don't mind if people decide to go with "Happy HOLIDAYS" instead of Christmas, but really, who cares? Not me. Besides, I think Christmas has been secularized enough to the point where I don't see how the image of Santa Claus can offend anyone. I don't mind depictions of the Navity out on people's lawns or in store front windows. I think it would be a terrible shame if some Grinch created a legal atmosphere where people never openly celebrated Christmas like they do now. I think a lot of it has to do with free expression, and I enjoy peaceful positive religous expression. Nobody hangs signs that say "Merry Christmas, but non-christian sinners will be burning in hell." It seems like corporations are imposing the limits themselves, and that kinda scares me too. Why would they feel they had to do so, because of a potential lawsuit? They should just keep with tradition, cause they'll get the lawsuits when they try to supress the X-mas spirit too. Anyway, I think decorations and celebration of Christmas is a good thing, and I think everyone on the boards can agree to that. -----signature----- God Bless J-Rod's Wife! Obi-Wan McCartney: Model Forum Member since 1999! America's Beatles are far better than England's precious Rolling Stones
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cal_silverstar Registered: Jul '02	Date Posted: 12/21/04 2:53pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	It's a sad day when Christmas, a religious holiday to some, a festive holiday to most, a time of giving and charity, and a time we spend with family and loved ones, is considered controversial and subject to litigation. At least Ebenezer Scrooge didn't want to eradicate Christmas all together. sigh -----signature----- I'm gonna miss Bush...isms. I write reviews and editorials for http://www.rrbgames.com
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CitizenKane Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 12/21/04 2:58pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	I think it's hilarious that so many (or actually so few) people would waste their Christmas money on stupid lawsuits to illegalize "Merry Christmas. Also, I think Cal's absolutely correct. And OWM, I am very glad we found common ground on something. -----signature----- CitizenKane
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I_kill_Tuskens Registered: Dec '02	Date Posted: 12/21/04 3:02pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	why cant those people just sod off and die. -----signature----- also known as Use-the_Force.
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/21/04 3:11pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Wow OWM... You've really suprised me lately. About the only thing that could make us closer is if you were to produce a NRA card with your name on it... J-Rod wipes tear from his eyes I, of course, agree with you!!! -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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Hades2021 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 12/21/04 3:31pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	In Denver, officials of the annual Parade of Lights refused to permit in the parade a float carrying the banner "Merry Christmas" with members of the Faith Bible Chapel congregation, who were to sing Christmas carols. Approved was a float sponsored by Two Souls, an American Indian group that considers homosexuality holy. Wow I love being reverse-discriminated against. -----signature----- "LIAR!" "Anakin, you're breaking my heart!" Nute Gunray Fan club
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Cyprusg Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/21/04 3:32pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	I think it's hilarious that so many (or actually so few) people would waste their Christmas money on stupid lawsuits to illegalize "Merry Christmas. Uhhh...to my knowledge there has NEVER been a lawsuit that has attempted to make Merry Christmas illegal. Y'know, who are these people that even have a problem with Merry Christmas? It seems to me it's either A.) These companies are taking political correctness to the extreme trying not to offend the half dozen people that might have a problem with the word christmas or B.) The information conservative websites keep spewing is actually the wrong information. Do we KNOW Macy's reasoning for changing their signs from Merry Christmas to Happy Holidays? Happy Holidays is all encompassing of any religion, so it would make sense as a marketing move (although I doubt it makes any bit of difference), and doesn't make any sense as an attempt to remove any religious connotation from the phrase. I just really have my doubts that there is even a so called attack on christmas. It just seems to me like it's another round of conservative paranoia at it's finest. Personally, I love christmas, and I don't think we should ever shy away from the religious aspects of it in the name of political correctness. It is what it is, a religious holiday. -----signature----- The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge
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Lord_Darth_Vader Title: Retired CR Sacrament o CA Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 12/21/04 3:42pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Ummm ... can you say anal? -----signature----- Thank God I'm an Athiest! Rogue Force Productions http://rfproduction.com
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Cheveyo Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:04pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Pat Buchannan.... what a guy. I'd be curious to see the real stories behind all of his accusations. I'd be willing to bet he's slanted the tales just a weeeeeeee bit (I mean slanted like the cliff faces of a sand dune) for added "oomf". -----signature----- I am a Founding Father. Want to know more? Just ask.
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:11pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas) - Date Edited: 12/21/04 4:13pm (1 edits total) Edited By: J-Rod
	I'd be curious to see the real stories behind all of his accusations. If these stories were slanted, they weren't slanted by Pat Buchanan. I've been hearing these same stories he's talking about for a few weeks now. EDIT: I actually voted for him in 2000. -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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Obi-Wan McCartney Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:19pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Chev, I was thinking the exact same thing when I read the article. J-Rod, on the other hand, I too think that the problem has been exaggerrated, Christians aren't facing any REAL or substantial persecution her, I just don't want to see De-Christianization become part of the Politically Correct Lexicon. -----signature----- God Bless J-Rod's Wife! Obi-Wan McCartney: Model Forum Member since 1999! America's Beatles are far better than England's precious Rolling Stones
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:22pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	LOL...OWM knows the sites I criuse and has probably guessed where I had originally heard these stories. -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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CitizenKane Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:23pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	I'd be curious to see the real stories behind all of his accusations. I'd be willing to bet he's slanted the tales just a weeeeeeee bit (I mean slanted like the cliff faces of a sand dune) for added "oomf". Chev, are you so trapped in the progressive bubble that you can't even admit the lunacies of your own side at least occasionally? Or is it simply that you haven't been watching the news and hearing all these stories? That's a bit audacious of you to question the authenticity of the stories just of pure desperation that, somehow, someway, the numbers of Nov. 2nd really did fool us all and the country is indeed a progressive people. -----signature----- CitizenKane
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Jedi Merkurian Registered: May '00	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:25pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	"I've been hearing these same stories he's talking about for a few weeks now." From whom? Conservative pundits? That's where I've been hearing these stories. FWIW, "banning" Christmas? Too far. Blowing a gasket because folks say "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas?" Also too far. -----signature----- Striking down can result in common side effects including fear, anger, aggresion, nausea, dry mouth, hatred, suffering, headaches, IBS, & in some extreme cases has been linked to lava burns Please consult your doctor before striking anyone down
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Hades2021 Registered: May '03	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:29pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	I was tutoring at an elementary school today. They were singing "We wish you a happy holiday" instead of the proper "We wish you a mmerry Christmas". Why? Honestly, I have no idea why. -----signature----- "LIAR!" "Anakin, you're breaking my heart!" Nute Gunray Fan club
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/21/04 4:30pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Blowing a gasket because folks say "Season's Greetings" or "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas?" Also too far. Not for 85% of us. Hell, that is the closest we'll will ever come to a complete concensus in this country. LOL...I'll bet 85% of us can't even agree on the importance of a regular shower or bathing program. Yet 85% of us celebrate Christmas. -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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