Jedi Council Forums - Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)

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Author	Topic: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
sidious618 Registered: Apr '03	Date Posted: 12/23/04 7:50pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	What I was refering to was the strange phenomenon of people using a television reference "to be different," despite the fact that was the entire inside joke of the skit. Well, that's why people use it. It's a great dig at the holidays in general. -----signature----- But in purple, I'm stunning!- Londo Mollari, Babylon 5
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/23/04 8:08pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Here's a good link about the attack on Christmas. no santa costumes allowed The school was not sponsoring the costume and the boy did not pretend to represent the school faculty. Why were his first amendment rights not honored? -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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Cyprusg Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/23/04 8:38pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	The school was not sponsoring the costume and the boy did not pretend to represent the school faculty. Why were his first amendment rights not honored? I don't understand it either actually. It would make sense if there was just a rule that they didn't allow costumes, but what doesn't make sense is what the principal said about being sensitive to other religions. What does Santa really have to do with christianity? And how is wearing a costume being insensitive to others? So I do think it infringed on his first amendment rights, but at the same time you know that one isolated incident does not equate into an example of the "attack of christmas". -----signature----- The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/23/04 8:43pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	So I do think it infringed on his first amendment rights, but at the same time you know that one isolated incident does not equate into an example of the "attack of christmas". You are absolutely correct. But what scares me is there is a whole bunch of these examples and individually, they are fairly unimportant. But added up they are signifigant and still "defendable" as Christians being "over-sensitive". -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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Cyprusg Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/23/04 8:52pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	But what scares me is there is a whole bunch of these examples and individually, they are fairly unimportant. But added up they are signifigant and still "defendable" as Christians being "over-sensitive". Where are these "whole bunch of examples"? -----signature----- The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/23/04 8:55pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Where are these "whole bunch of examples"? A lot of them have already been listed in this thread. The rest I hear about on the radio. Hell, even Air America talks about it. Though they kinda make fun of my concerns, they still talk about it. -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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AnakinsGirl Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 12/23/04 8:56pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	thanks for all the christian links. i'm not saying every single christian on the face of the earth is one huge hypocrit, but i'm saying that that's basically what the holiday now stands for and i think the vast majority of people (many who call themselves christians) buy into all the consumerism crap, thus making themselves big fat huge hypocrits. as for the sarcastic remark about my hatred and christianphobia...i dont get it.
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Cyprusg Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/23/04 9:16pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	A lot of them have already been listed in this thread. The rest I hear about on the radio. So what you're saying is, you don't really have all the information you're just buying into the conservative propaganda that's being spoon-fed to you? You know, if something gets repeated a thousand times, it doesn't make it true. I hear it all the time too, I've read it so many times on this website alone. But more often than not just a couple minutes of digging you'll uncover there is usually more to the story. Take the original Pat Buchanan editorial for instance. He claims these things as fact, and I've heard them being repeated countless times as fact, but just a little research and logical thought tells you that there was more going on than he said. -----signature----- The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/23/04 9:18pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	So what you're saying is, you don't really have all the information you're just buying into the conservative propaganda that's being spoon-fed to you? That is entirely possible. That is why I mentioned that Air America was also talking about it. I listen to Al Franken and Ed Shultz almost every day. Just to make sure I ain't gettin' too spoon fed. -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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Cyprusg Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 12/23/04 9:22pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	That is entirely possible. That is why I mentioned that Air America was also talking about it. I listen to Al Franken and Ed Shultz almost every day. Just to make sure I ain't gettin' too spoon fed. Good answer. -----signature----- The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge
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J-Rod Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 12/23/04 9:23pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Thanks. -----signature----- God Bless Barack Obama Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" Gamertag: zZ J ROD Zz
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Lord_Darth_Vader Title: Retired CR Sacrament o CA Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 12/23/04 9:39pm Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas) - Date Edited: 12/23/04 9:50pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Lord_Darth_Vader
	ok Cyp ... I am here to kill this thread! LOL just kidding Merry Christmas to all! -----signature----- Thank God I'm an Athiest! Rogue Force Productions http://rfproduction.com
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Cheveyo Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 12/24/04 12:53am Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Vezner: Maybe you should mind your own business and leave me out of conversations that I have nothing to do with. Just a suggestion to make you a little less rude. If you want to say rude things about me at least have the decency to do it in private and not in public. You can stand to dish out absurdities about liberals, but can't stand to hear your own argument tossed back at you? You've been a part of this thread, and so have been a part of this conversation. If you wish not to have your point discussed, feel free to stop posting. CitizenKane: Yet you do not reply to those four links I gave you. Hmmm... No conspiracy there, sorry. I'm commenting on Pat Buchanan's editorial. Would you like me to add my two cents about your links, as well? Very well. here you go: Regarding FoxNews: AZ anti-song: I quote this quote... "Peter Gentala, legal counsel for the Center for Arizona Policy, said the policy disrespects others. “When we celebrate a holiday like Christmas, when 96 percent of the country celebrates Christmas, we are teaching our kids about the tradition, and you can't teach kids about the tradition if you're uniquely disadvantaging the religious sides of the holiday,” Gentala said." Just before that, this was said: ""Today, 40 percent of our class rooms — 40 percent — are made up of students from minority ethnicities and nationalities and religions,” Bill Strauss, regional director of the Anti-Defamation League in Phoenix." When multiculturalism is so vast in schools, why would you show preference toward only one culture or religion? Regarding New Jersey Ban: The ban on religious carols in this school district has been in affect for a decade. The ban on instrumental Christian music came this year only because--according to the district spokespeople--such music had only slipped through the cracks of the policy until this year. This is nothing new for the Maplewood school district. The nation really needs to get over it. Regarding Commentary: It's a commentary. What source of news is a commentary? This is Ed Woodward's opinion. Good for him. What about facts? I guess you don't need facts when you have a snappy catch phrase like "Secularists are neutering Santa". And finally, regaiding [link=]Macy's is just plain dumb[/link]: This argument is just plain dumb. The phrases "Happy Holidays" and "Seasons' Greetings" have been around longer than my grandparents. Being a high priced commercial store, it makes sense that you would want all people to feel welcome in their stores. Saying Merry Christmas only acknowledges one of the holidays in this seasons. The other phrases are all-encompassing. Why don't you get that? I'm astounded that you believe "Happy Holidays" is debasing Christianity. It's... It's beyond comprehension. It seriously lacks any concept of logic or reality. To think that Happy Holidays has been around for so long and it is not until right now that someone suddenly feels trod upon because they won't honor just the one holiday anymore... It's petty. Really, sincerely, petty. C'mon folks. get real. Ophelia: Oh, I know. I was just saying. The two-spirits tradition is not the same as "being gay," and in and of itself it's not holy, although you can do holy things with it. So, in terms of tradition, we have niether homosexuality nor holiness here. None of that really applies to the Denver group anyway, since they're a self-described GLBT support group. Nothing wrong with that, it's just not terribly connected with ancient Native American tradition (and the group doesn't claim otherwise). Then you and I agree that Pat Buchanan was wrong in saying that Two Souls considered homosexuality as holy. Which means that they were not a religious group (in celebrating the holiness of homosexuality), as Pat insinuated. The parade was a "festival of lights", not a "everyone else's holiness but Christians". J-Rod: I listen to Al Franken and Ed Shultz almost every day. Just to make sure I ain't gettin' too spoon fed. There's a reason why they call Air America the antithesis of the far right. It is the far left. Al is a riot to listen to sometimes, but I'd no sooner take the news from him or Ed than I would from Rush or Bill. -----signature----- I am a Founding Father. Want to know more? Just ask.
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 12/24/04 1:50am Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas) - Date Edited: 12/24/04 1:54am (2 edits total) Edited By: Undomiel
	Chev, Are you saying they outlawed instrumental music (as in no words) because it was from a christian-oriented christmas song? LordDarthVader, Merry Christmas to you, too!
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Undomiel Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 12/24/04 2:12am Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! (A secularist view on Christmas decorations and the spirit of X-mas)
	Ophelia, Are you referring to the case where a couple divorced and the child moved in with the formerly-gay turned christian parent, who read the child verses from the bible describing homosexuality as a sin? I've extrapolated, due to lack of full disclosure, that the other parent (the one that didn't have custody) was in disagreement with this, and decided he/she wanted some say in what the child was learning at home about homosexuality, took it to court, and won the case, which basically said that the parent with custody was not allowed to teach her child from the bible about homosexuality being wrong. I didn't have all the info, so I assumed the parent that didn't have custody, might have been gay, and found that such teachings undermined his/her relationship with the child. What exactly WAS the story then?
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