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Topic:
Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 3:29pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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I'd say there's a few more reasons why NK didn't get invaded. Firstly, they're pretty well fortified with their artillery, landmines, and whatnot. Secondly, we already had troops tied down in Iraq and probably didn't have the political will at home to deal with yet another war. Thirdly, and probably most important, is that we don't want to piss off Russia and China at this point.
* All good points, but I'd still say the symbolic security value of a nuke plays a major part in this as well as pride and prestige.
Saddam was much more of a scapegoat, and for all the trouble he's caused us it made going after him so much easier to justify, and I'd say that's why it happened.
* The problem with that is that the way it was done effectively demands we act similarly on everyone else and there is worse than Saddam in the world and there isn't the resources to really do this.
It's worrisome because even if Iran doesn't fire off a warhead at Israel, someday that technology might find its way into the hands of terrorists.
* If a terrorist organisation really wanted to get their hands on a nuke they wouldn't necessarily have to wait for Iran, they could nick one from one of the ex-USSR states or even buy one. I'd say it's more likely that, sooner or later, there will be black market nukes available. No state will be so dumb, for if a state was to sell a weapon to a terrorist group who then used that weapon, they would be in the crap big time. It's stupid to think transactions of any kind can be totally untraceable.
And that's when bad stuff occurs. Assuming that Iran had the best of intentions regarding nuclear technology, it would still be a bad idea for the world in general because of the security risks. That's why I think that they should at least hold off on nuclear technology until the threat of worldwide terrorism dies down.
* Yet Iran maintains its programme is for energy production only. Now of course you can say it has military application, but there's little in the world that doesn't! Equally the question can be asked: Why only Iran? If nuclear tech should not be pursued due to security risks does this mean the UK should not buy Trident? Or the US pursue a new generation of nukes?
(I'm still mystified as to why the US needs new nukes, against who? Oh wait, pork barrel at work.)
* Neither risk nor threat is going to disappear, should we let terrorists and their claims dictate activity or stuff them? I opt for the latter.
JB
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DarthArsenal6
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 3:46pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
- Date Edited:
1/9/07 3:56pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthArsenal6
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Mr44 posted:
He only mentioned it - thats all, on retaliation of Isreal who said they would like to see the Gaza strip to be Wiped off the map ! some years back.
The actual comments, and the follow-on reactions, were worded more strongly though.
al-J
ANAN
...and Isreal never said that they wanted to wipe out the Gaza strip ?
Really ?
I knw wht Amijinard said, I saw it on CNN and BBC i didn't agree with it.
Its only when I watch something on C4 , brief moment what Isreal was sayin since day one about gaza strip and thats way before when Amijinard said or even before 9/11 took place.
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eaglejedi
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 8:52pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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Do you mean Ahmedinejad, who as I recall was elected President of Iran after 9/11? The really ridiculous thing about all the hoop-lah about him, is that he is not the head of state, the big cheese. He is the head of government and under the current Iranian Constitution, has limits on his domestic authority and virtually no authority in foreign relations or defense matters. Foreign policy and defense matters are the responsibility of the the Supreme Religious Council and its leader, Grand Ayatollah Khamenei, who is effectively the head of state. All of Ahmedinejad's aggressive statements are really just bluster, hot air, PR stunts for internal consumption in Iran. The sooner the United States government and the American people wise up to these facts, the better off we'll all be.
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DarthArsenal6
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/12/07 7:22am
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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^ THANK YOU ! 
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Jedi Ben
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
1/12/07 2:59pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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eaglejedi posted:
Do you mean Ahmedinejad, who as I recall was elected President of Iran after 9/11? The really ridiculous thing about all the hoop-lah about him, is that he is not the head of state, the big cheese. He is the head of government and under the current Iranian Constitution, has limits on his domestic authority and virtually no authority in foreign relations or defense matters. Foreign policy and defense matters are the responsibility of the the Supreme Religious Council and its leader, Grand Ayatollah Khamenei, who is effectively the head of state. All of Ahmedinejad's aggressive statements are really just bluster, hot air, PR stunts for internal consumption in Iran. The sooner the United States government and the American people wise up to these facts, the better off we'll all be.
Why ever would they do that when it's far better to panic and run around like headless chickens?
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Howe: Why?
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Howe: And no second chances...
Castle: I don't do redemption.
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/12/07 3:45pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
- Date Edited:
1/12/07 9:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mr44
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..and Isreal never said that they wanted to wipe out the Gaza strip ?
Really ?
Did I say this?
I simply pointed out the actual comments were given in a different setting, and where stronger and more widely condemned, than you originally indicated.
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eaglejedi
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
1/12/07 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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Jedi Ben: Well, it would be more likely to lead to effective negotations and avoid war. But, I guess the headless chicken thing is more fun. For about thirty seconds, anyway.
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Council Jedi Master, Light Side Jedi Order http://boards.theforce.net/Message.aspx?topic=17346237&brd=10008&start=28564937 Love everything, for that is why you are here. An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.-Gandhi http://www.thehungersite.com
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DarthArsenal6
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/12/07 4:57pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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Mr44 I never said you did
but just to put Amdinjards comments on CNN and ALjezeera ..is that make Iran the main villains and Isreal goes scott free ?
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/12/07 10:05pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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I'm not quite sure I understand the obsession with Israel here. Israel has been widely discussed around the forum, and no one has thrown any labels out in this discussion, villian or otherwise. Honestly, the only people who are throwing out labels are those who are reacting to statements that were never made.
But I think you're missing the larger picture. Iran is being investigated by the IAEA for violations of international treaty. Iran is under review by the UNSC to determine the scope of UN sanctions. Unfortunately for the Iranian people, the nature of this relationship is defining Iran at the moment.
It is true that the Supreme Religious Leader is the highest authority in Iran, but the President, the very same Ahmadinejad, is commander in chief of the armed forces. It's not the smartest move for the commander in chief to be publically stating that without hesitation he wants to wipe any country off the map at the same time he is pursuing nuclear technology. Such statements do cause the international community to react with concern, none more than the country that is the focus.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
1/12/07 10:44pm
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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Well, the thing is, Israel's not pledging to wipe anyone off the map and I would bet that every time that do something stupid and crazy Mr Bush is yelling at them for being fanatic idiots.
Iran has been pushing their buttons incessantly, Darth_Arsenal6, and based on a whole plethora of reason I'm not about to suggest we give Iran a gentle massage you know?
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yankee8255
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/07 12:20am
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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Thomas Friedman makes a great point in his column in the NYT today:
Friedman posted:
Martin Luther Al-King?
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
It’s hard to know what’s more disturbing: the barbaric sectarian murders by Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq, or the deafening silence with which these mass murders are received in the Muslim world. How could it be that Danish cartoons of Muhammad led to mass violent protests, while unspeakable violence by Muslims against Muslims in Iraq every day evokes about as much reaction in the Arab-Muslim world as the weather report? Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King? Where is the “Million Muslim March” under the banner: “No Shiites, No Sunnis: We are all children of the Prophet Muhammad.”
And it really touches on a fundamental point -- the muslim world, or an important segment thereof, have been brainwashed into bewlieving that Israel and the US are their biggest problem.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
1/24/07 2:33am
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
- Date Edited:
1/24/07 2:33am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gonk
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You can't brainwash an entire population spanning multiple nations, yankee.
It's mob mentality. Like the attitudes of the masses during the French Revolution. It starts from somve very key points of truth to become a distorted, fuzzy logic that overrides everything. Most importantly any notion of self-examination.
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yankee8255
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/24/07 2:52am
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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I was obvoiusly using brainwash figuratively. In fact, I think we're on exactly the same page, based on the second paragraph of your post.
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DarthArsenal6
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/24/07 9:33am
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
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yankee8255 posted:
Thomas Friedman makes a great point in his column in the NYT today:
Friedman posted:
Martin Luther Al-King?
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
It’s hard to know what’s more disturbing: the barbaric sectarian murders by Sunnis and Shiites in Iraq, or the deafening silence with which these mass murders are received in the Muslim world. How could it be that Danish cartoons of Muhammad led to mass violent protests, while unspeakable violence by Muslims against Muslims in Iraq every day evokes about as much reaction in the Arab-Muslim world as the weather report? Where is the Muslim Martin Luther King? Where is the “Million Muslim March” under the banner: “No Shiites, No Sunnis: We are all children of the Prophet Muhammad.”
And it really touches on a fundamental point -- the muslim world, or an important segment thereof, have been brainwashed into bewlieving that Israel and the US are their biggest problem.
“No Shiites, No Sunnis: We are all children of the Prophet Muhammad.”
Yep Freedman Just said it all,
.......and Yankee8255
when Isreal attacked Lebanon in the summer was that a brainwash tactic used by extremist to go up against Israel and the US ?
How about the illegal war of Iraq, thousands of inncoent people died as a result or Abu Ghrib and other atrocities commited by western forces (Proven), or the soilder themssevles who are suffering from this war metally
Are these brainwash tatitcs ?
Or Isreal bulldozing many Palistians homes Are theses Brainwashiong tatics ?
Or how about the Masscre that Irsael created against the Muslim Lebanese people back in 1982 was that Brainwashing tactics ?
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DA6 calender goes from March 31st to April 2nd, no one fools DarthArsenal6.
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
1/24/07 9:37am
Subject:
RE: Middle East Politics Discussion v2.0
- Date Edited:
1/24/07 9:39am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vaderize03
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when Isreal attacked Lebanon in the summer was that a brainwash tactic used by extremist to go up against Israel and the US
No, it was a response to attacks on Israel by a terrorist group that was being supported by the legitimate governments of Iran and Syria.
Perhaps Israel should have attacked them, then?
Or how about the Masscre that Irsael created against the Muslim Lebanese people back in 1982 was that Brainwashing tactics ?
Hmmm, how about the Jordanians murdering thousands of Palestinians?
Tit-for-tat works both ways, and simply pointing out one-sided examples does nothing to advance the debate-it only inflames.
Peace,
V-03
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