Author Topic: Official Forum Rules and Policy Feedback Thread
Mr44 
Registered: May '02
Date Posted: 8/28/05 7:41pm Subject: Official Forum Rules and Policy Feedback Thread - Date Edited: 1/22 10:14pm (10 edits total) Edited By: Mr44
Senate Floor Rules and Regulations



Hello, and welcome to the Senate Floor! Before you begin posting here, we would like to outline for you some of the rules and guidelines that will help make your time here more enjoyable. These rules are in addition to those that apply across all of the boards.



A. Behavior

  1. Users are completely responsible for their behavior and not anyone else's. All users are expected to abide by the rules regardless of whatever provocation they may face. If you are being provoked, report it to a moderator. Do not use it as an excuse to violate the rules yourself.
  2. Flaming, Baiting, and trolling are not allowed under any circumstances. Avoid negative personal comments about any other users. Keep things to the issues, not the people. Avoid generalizing about or labeling the beliefs of those who disagree with you. If you see any of the above behaviors, please report them to the moderators immediately.
  3. Swearing and other explicit language is not allowed. When in doubt about a word, don't use it. If you choose to star out a word, do so completely using asterisks (****). Inappropriate language will be edited on sight. This includes abbreviations of questionable words.
  4. Spam is not allowed in the Senate Floor. Spam consists of any messages or threads posted without promoting the appropriate topic of discussion. This includes the direct posting of news stories or other articles without providing a basis for discussion.
  5. Condescending posts are not appropriate here. Each user has his own, unique background and experiences. There is no excuse to talk down to anyone. None of us is any better than anyone else here.
  6. Warnings may be given to users who misbehave. These warnings can take the form of an edit, a post, or a PM. If you have any questions about a warning, contact the moderator via PM. Multiple warnings could result in a ban. Extreme offenses may warrant a ban without warning.



B. Topics

  1. The Senate Floor is designed to allow mature discussion of more mature topics. These topics can include, but are not limited to, politics, religion, and other social issues. If you have any doubts about whether a thread is appropriate, PM a moderator and they will help you. Inappropriate threads may be locked and/or deleted by a moderator.
  2. Although this board is devoted to mature topics, some topics still require moderator approval before being posted. These include sexual and related topics. PM a moderator for approval of any such threads.
  3. We invite new threads, but they should be different from current ones. Redundant threads will be redirected and locked. Similarly, sometimes a topic becomes too inflammatory and will be locked for a time. In such cases, do not start a new thread on the same topic without moderator approval. Avoid making multiple threads in a short period of time. If you have any questions as to why a thread was locked, PM the moderator who locked it.
  4. Some threads will be designed to allow discussion of a topic while others will be designed to debate a topic. Remember that not everything needs to be an argument between two sides. Sometimes a thread can be there to simply promote understanding between two positions, not decide who is right or wrong.
  5. This is not a social board. If you wish to socialize with your fellow users, go to the JCC or participate in the official Senate Floor Social Thread.
  6. While this is a Star Wars message board, the Senate Floor is not the place for Star Wars discussion. You can use it as an example within a thread, but no threads should be centered on Star Wars material.
  7. The Senate Floor is for the discussion of serious issues. To this end, "What if...?" threads are not allowed as a rule. Any exceptions to this rule must be approved by a moderator before the thread is posted.



C. Moderators

  1. Moderators cannot be available 24/7. Please show patience when contacting a moderator, as we may not be able to reply immediately. If there is an emergency (such as a troll spamming the forum), contact any moderator and request their assistance.
  2. Moderators are the final arbiters of all rules. In the event of a question or comment about these rules, contact a moderator for clarification. PMs are the preferred form of contact for communicating with a moderator. You can contact any one of us by clicking on the link in the forum header.
  3. If you feel that a moderator is acting inappropriately, contact another moderator or one of the board administrators via PM.
  4. These rules may be changed as needed by the moderators. In that event, changes will be posted here. It is advised that you check this thread regularly for any updates.



D. A Word About Polls

  1. Polls should be held to the same standard as any senate post. That is, they should serve a legitimate purpose (ie not be frivolous), and they, like anything else, must respect the TOS.
  2. Poll threads are not just for voting, but also for discussion. You dwell in the senate to debate, so darn it, do it! What I specifically mean by this is: have a "first post" to go along with your poll to help steer the initial discussion, and see where it goes from there.
  3. Before starting a new poll, ask yourself "Is this redundant?". This also runs true between polls and normal threads; do we really five different discussions on the nature of religious faith?
  4. Have fun, and if you're not sure whether or not a poll is kosher, ask one of the moderators. We'd be happy to clear things up for you.


Thanks, and enjoy (from your friendly moderating staff) happy .

This thread also serves as a place to inquire about Senate forum policies. In order to provide a benefit for everyone, keep 2 things in mind:

1)Please ask questions that have a forum wide focus. PM's are still the preferred method to clarify why one's "puppy, candy and fireworks" thread was locked.

2)There is already a social thread, so keep this moderately offical.

Other than that, ask away!

 

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Peter Shoomaker
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LostOnHoth 
Registered: Feb '00
43871_Stormtrooper Loser
Date Posted: 8/28/05 11:34pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
What happens if you breach the ZTP?

 

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Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities - Voltaire
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Mr44 
Registered: May '02
Date Posted: 8/29/05 12:12am Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
Traditionally, the "zero tolerance" thread serves as a mass warning against the listed behavior. As such, any violation skips right to the ban stage, because a warning has already been given.

It's not automatic, but does it result in an increased standard of behavior.

 

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Peter Shoomaker
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Cheveyo 
Registered: Oct '01
45734_Boba Fett Silhouette
Date Posted: 8/29/05 9:12am Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice* - Date Edited: 8/29/05 9:14am (1 edits total) Edited By: Cheveyo
I trust, in light of recent events, that this policy will adhere to the promise of its text, and enforce ZTP indiscriminately.

As you well know, this is an item of concern for many which merits constant reminder.

 

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DarthKarde 
Registered: Jun '02
7823_Darth Sidious
Date Posted: 8/29/05 12:15pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
Persoanlly I always favour a common sense and circumastance based approach over zero tolerance policies which only serve to demonstrate that things have gotten out of hand.

However a zero tolerance approach, if it is enforced evenly, will be an improvement on the current state of affairs where consistancy, and I say impartiality, has been woefully lacking.

 

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Vaderize03 
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Oct '99
14744_Darth Vader
Date Posted: 8/29/05 2:10pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
We're aware of that perception, DarthKarrde, and this is the first step towards trying to to change that.

I, for one, like to appeal to the adult side of everyone but sadly it is oftentimes lacking.

Peace,

V-03

 

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DarthKarde 
Registered: Jun '02
7823_Darth Sidious
Date Posted: 8/30/05 5:13am Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
The perception will only change when the reality changes.

However I do exempt you from my criticism.

 

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Better Off Out - http://www.betteroffout.co.uk
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Mr44 
Registered: May '02
Date Posted: 8/31/05 10:11pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice* - Date Edited: 9/3/05 1:18pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Mr44
I think there may be some confusion about what this policy entails.

It's not a giant boot of authority that repeatedly kicks free speech in the face.

There is no hidden agenda, master plan, or board wide conspiracy.
Direct debate is fine. Sarcasism is fine. Using sources to refute another person's post is fine. Asking someone to support their claims is fine.

Simply put, think of it as an offical version of the golden rule. Don't call people names or post just to foster an environment of antagonism.






 

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Don’t confuse enthusiasm with capability.
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Peter Shoomaker
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Mr44 
Registered: May '02
Date Posted: 9/3/05 1:18pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice* - Date Edited: 9/3/05 1:19pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Mr44
(no message)

 

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Peter Shoomaker
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DeathStar1977 
Registered: Jan '03
7850_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 9/4/05 12:08pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
I'd like to back up DK regarding enforcing this evenly.

There is no hidden agenda, master plan, or board wide conspiracy.

I know I've been very hard on you Mr44 and KK lately, but the issue isn't a 'conspiracy' rather that we are all guilty of our own ingrained biases. So again, its not that either of you have conspired to suppress those who disagree with you, rather that rules should be enforced evenly, which I understand is open to interpretation and not always easy.

On a side note, should the threads that discuss Hurricane Katrina be merged into one thread?

 

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Kimball_Kinnison 
Registered: Oct '01
6249_Veers
Date Posted: 9/4/05 8:45pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
DeathStar1977 posted:
I know I've been very hard on you Mr44 and KK lately, but the issue isn't a 'conspiracy' rather that we are all guilty of our own ingrained biases. So again, its not that either of you have conspired to suppress those who disagree with you, rather that rules should be enforced evenly, which I understand is open to interpretation and not always easy.
Believe it or not, we do try to recognize that, and adapt for it.

However, at the same time, users have to recognize their own inherent biases. A good example of this was in a recent thread where I had to ban my brother for flaming (he gets unbanned tomorrow), and then issued a general warning to address the people who were baiting him. What was the response to that? Accusations of bias and favortism, and complaints about the warning. I took no other actions against anyone (except editing a comment in response to his flame, and removing posts or comments that were off-topic complaining about the warning), and yet my actions were treated as proof of bias and heavyhandedness.

At times, it feels like I can't take any action against someone with whom I tend to disagree without the charge of bias being used. If I act against someone with whom I tend to agree, it seems like no one notices or cares.

Sometimes, a warning is fair and impartial, even if it is directed at people on only one side. Cut us a little slack, for once. Please.

Kimball Kinnison

 

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You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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DeathStar1977 
Registered: Jan '03
7850_Luke Skywalker
Date Posted: 9/4/05 9:28pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
However, at the same time, users have to recognize their own inherent biases.

Me, biased? Thats unpossible! wink

Seriously though, I understand what you are saying, and perhaps your example has more to do with poor timing and a misunderstaning rather than any bias. It appeared that a mod was using their power to stifle a discussion because of personal reasons. Once Mr44 clarified the situation, the issue seemed resolved.

At times, it feels like I can't take any action against someone with whom I tend to disagree without the charge of bias being used. If I act against someone with whom I tend to agree, it seems like no one notices or cares.

We understand its a thankless job, but you guys get paid a lot to do what you do right? mischief

Sometimes, a warning is fair and impartial, even if it is directed at people on only one side. Cut us a little slack, for once. Please.

No, no slack! C’mon KK, I am well aware I can be a ****, I’ve admitted it both directly and indirectly several times. But I have also frequently praised you, Mr44 and V03 on many occassions of being excellent moderators in addition to being three of the brightest contributors to the boards here. And I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way.

 

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Kimball_Kinnison 
Registered: Oct '01
6249_Veers
Date Posted: 9/5/05 6:35am Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
DeathStar1977 posted:
However, at the same time, users have to recognize their own inherent biases.

Me, biased? Thats unpossible! wink

Seriously though, I understand what you are saying, and perhaps your example has more to do with poor timing and a misunderstaning rather than any bias. It appeared that a mod was using their power to stifle a discussion because of personal reasons. Once Mr44 clarified the situation, the issue seemed resolved.


You didn't see the thread in Comms about the issue, I take it. Of course that thread was started by the sock of a banned user, but it still went on for quite a while.

DeathStar1977 posted:
At times, it feels like I can't take any action against someone with whom I tend to disagree without the charge of bias being used. If I act against someone with whom I tend to agree, it seems like no one notices or cares.

We understand its a thankless job, but you guys get paid a lot to do what you do right? mischief


Our pay comes in the ability to randomly ban those people who piss us off. tongue I thought we already established that.

DeathStar1977 posted:
Sometimes, a warning is fair and impartial, even if it is directed at people on only one side. Cut us a little slack, for once. Please.

No, no slack! C’mon KK, I am well aware I can be a ****, I’ve admitted it both directly and indirectly several times. But I have also frequently praised you, Mr44 and V03 on many occassions of being excellent moderators in addition to being three of the brightest contributors to the boards here. And I’m sure I’m not the only one who feels that way.


I think you misunderstood my point and request for slack a bit. It often feels like those with whom I disagree are looking for any conceivable way in which I (or another mod) could express bias, and the moment there is something that conceivably might be biased, they jump all over us for it. It seems like they see themselves as a watchdog group, and think they have to speak out for every last issue, based completely upon their perception. At the same time, they seem to expect that the mods do the opposite, evaluate both sides in detail and then act.

This is compounded by the nature of almost everyone in the Senate, arguing over the last detail of everything. When we issue a warning in a thread, there are often a half dozen posts after it that take the thread off-topic (something that by itself is against the rules), and complain about the warning. We then have to edit those posts (especially after we say that the matter is not up for debate, because such warnings are not a matter of public debate), which makes people think that we took far more action than we did. That is one of the biggest reasons why we ask that if you have a problem with a moderator action, you PM the mod involved. The last time I gave a public warning, I didn't get a single PM about the warning in the thread (I did get a few from the Comms thread, though). On the other hand, there were several posts in the thread complaining baout it. That is a regular pattern with warnings.

I'm asking that not only you, but everyone cut us a little slack when we have to give warnings. Quite often, things are different than appearances would suggest, and none of the mods (myself included) is here to try and flex his e-muscle. Believe me, if I did, there are a lot of people who wouldn't be posting now (or ever again, for that matter). We are simply trying to do the best that we can to keep things running smoothly. We can't do that alone.

Kimball Kinnison

 

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You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
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Ender_Sai 
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Feb '01
44324_Kyle Katarn
Date Posted: 9/5/05 4:41pm Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
So what you're saying, Kimball, is that if you issue a warning chances are we, the posters, deserved it?

Preposterous! You know perfectly well flaming and baiting to the point where the topic sits dejectedly at the head of the table contemplating suicide is well within the ToS, and you mods are just power hungry commie-nazis trying to steal UNICEF pennies, stifle opposition, invade Iraq, control the liberal bias media and vast right wing conspiracy, stack the USSC with conservative judges, ram your liberal agenda on the family, support terrorism, deny God whilst forcing God on people, banning those who get in your way and damn your biases sir.

mischief

If it's any consolation I'd wager half or more of the people who piss and moan when you issue a warning would contest a parking ticket for parking in a disabled zone or a speeding ticket doing 2.5x the speed limit.

E_S

 

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BenduHopkins 
Registered: Apr '04
17821_Lando takes control
Date Posted: 9/7/05 8:21am Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
I'm just curious. Are there ANY liberal moderators here? I can't think of any. I think they might all be conservative.

 

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Ender_Sai 
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Feb '01
44324_Kyle Katarn
Date Posted: 9/7/05 8:34am Subject: RE: *Zero Tolerance Warning Notice*
Actually, none are conservative.

Despite hysterical pronouncements to the contrary KK and Mr44 are astonishingly moderate.

E_S

 

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