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Topic:
Official Forum Rules and Policy Feedback Thread
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Mr44
Title: Modly McHume:
the Senate
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
12/10/05 6:46am
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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Here's a thought: If you want this forum to be more inviting to users and not so intimidating, try being a little more compassionate and understanding in your moderating. KK's attitude towards me when I broke a rule, of which I was not aware as it was my first overall experience posting here, was abraisive, abrupt and rude. If this is how users are routinely treated here, then I can understand why many choose not to post here. I certainly will not be coming back. Try treating your users with respect and courtesy, especially when they are new and unknowingly break a rule of which they were not aware.
No, it's not typical, but in some cases, it's required based on the situation.
What you have to keep in mind is that some situations already come with a history here in the forum.
For example, callling someone a bigot is one of those situations. As another example, using "liberal/conservative" as respective insults has the same effect. It's been found that some terms are so loaded that they instantly turn whatever thread they are used into a flame war. As such, they are more readily controlled.
Think of it as the Senate's version of the "length of a Star Destroyer debate." Such a policy was developed through trial and error, and came about to eliminate problems, not create them.
It's nothing personal, and we're glad you came around and contributed to the forum.
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Obi-Wan McCartney
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
12/10/05 12:30pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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Why can't people just have a discussion on what constitutes a bigot?
Can I start a thread on that?
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Obi-Wan McCartney: Model Forum Member since 1999!
America's Beatles are far better than England's precious Rolling Stones
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Mr44
Title: Modly McHume:
the Senate
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
12/10/05 1:13pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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OWM, you know why, but I think with your unqiue brand of plucky contrariness, you overlook it.
There is a difference between using potentially derogatory terms in a general manner, and directing them at a specific person.
It's kind of like how your signature posting style labels everything you don't agree with as "conservative..." ie- why can't conservatives see things my way, or why are conservatives so out of touch, etc...
I personally don't understand why you are so obessed with labels, especially since you are quite capable of explaining your ideas without them, but I don't think such behavior crosses the line. TripleB used to be the same way with his useage of "liberal," and when such useage crossed the line, it was dealt with. Because it is a fine line, which we constantly examine to find the right mix of discussion and protection.
But using a derogatory term when it is directed at a specific person, or used to dismiss their beliefs is never allowed. If someone posts their beliefs, and someone dismisses them by calling them a name, it has the effect of stiffling discussion and it isn't fair to the original person.
The goal here is to foster understanding, not simply to label the opposition.
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Obi-Wan McCartney
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
12/11/05 9:56am
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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COme on Mr. 44, many of the people here post to "shut down" the opposition, I for one at least try to point out weaknesses in my own arguments as well.
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Obi-Wan McCartney: Model Forum Member since 1999!
America's Beatles are far better than England's precious Rolling Stones
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DarthMatter
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 7:24pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
- Date Edited:
1/22/06 7:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthMatter
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I hope this is the right thread: Just wanted to say, for what it's worth, I've noticed a change for the better around here. The last time I even read/lurked in the Senate was a year-and-a-half ago, around the time of the 2004 US Election and afterward. Back then, the mood here was very, very tense. Now, it seems conversational and laid back - though I haven't read any political/religious threads. So, I don't know what's different, but something's noticeable from out here... 
(minor edit)
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Mr44
Title: Modly McHume:
the Senate
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 4:01am
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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Thanks for the input. Things are in a bit of flux right now, and we are trying to find the right balance between being more laid back, but still upholding the same Senate standard.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 3:10pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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As Mr44 said, thanks for the input.
What we're aiming for is a kind of CNN "Diplomatic License" style to the Senate, in effect; that is, we can be conversational about topical issues as well as being fairly accurate in what we present. Of course, we still hold the notion of substantiated claims to be Holy in the Senate; that is, if you can't back it up, yousa in big doodoos.
E_S
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DarthMatter
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/24/06 11:55am
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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That's interesting. Since I haven't followed the Senate in the interim, I guess it's working? Back then there was a whole throwdown over the ZTP, but now things seem much more open... Anyway, just wanted to say hello
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
2/8/06 4:44pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
- Date Edited:
2/8/06 4:45pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ender_Sai
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Godwin's Law:
(this is an abridged version of the Wikipedia article)
Godwin's Law (also Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies) is an adage in Internet culture originated by Mike Godwin on Usenet in 1990 that states:
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.
There is a tradition of protocol in many Usenet newsgroups that once such a comparison is made, the thread in which the comment was posted is over and whoever mentioned the Nazis has automatically lost whatever debate was in progress.
It is considered poor form to arbitrarily raise such a comparison with the motive of ending the thread. There is a widely recognized codicil that any such deliberate invocation of Godwin's Law will be unsuccessful.
Godwin's Law was named after Mike Godwin, an attorney who was legal counsel for the Electronic Frontier Foundation at the time the law was first popularized. He has since written a book about free speech and online privacy called Cyber Rights: Defending Free Speech in the Digital Age in which he discusses the origin of Godwin's Law.
Godwin established the law as part of an experiment in memetics, the study of information transfer. On Usenet there was a trend toward demonizing opponents in arguments by comparing the position they held to that of Hitler or the Nazis, in Godwin's own words "a trivialization I found both illogical and offensive." [1] So, in 1990, Godwin developed the law as a counter-meme and began posting it in Usenet discussions after such a comparison occurred.
Godwin's Law portrays an inevitable appeal to emotion as well as holding an implied ad hominem attack on the subject being compared, both of which are fallacious in irrelevant contexts. Hitler, on a semiotic level, has far too many negative connotations associated with him to be used as a valid comparison to anything but other despotic dictators. Thus, Godwin's Law holds even in making comparisons to normal leaders that, on the surface, would seem to be reasonable comparisons.
As it says, not only does Hitler and Nazism hold too many negative connotations to be nothing less than an emotional appeal to the "evil" the poster sees and an ad hominem attack; it's evidence of both a poor argument on the poster's end and the death knell for any rational, intelligent discussion.
Don't invoke Godwin's Law; it says basically, "I'm not smart or adept at expressing my thoughts enough to counter your argument so I'll make a vain emotional appeal to a historically accepted evil which implies that your ideas as evil too, lolololol!!11!!  "
Nazi references = laem. If you're not good enough to rise above them, try not posting. It saves us from rolling our eyes at you, which is mean. Bad us!
E_S
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In this truth he knew himself to be.
From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
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Silmarillion
Title: Manager Emerita/Ex RSA
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
7/10/06 3:45am
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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It is possible to get the link colour changed from white to something that contrasts more with the background? It's almost impossible to see on my screen.
Perhaps just change it to the dark green colour used in the background?
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http://x-realms.net/ Dang it, Monica! I can't live this charade any longer! I'm not a telephone repairman who stumbled into your life - I'm a Komodo dragon, largest member of the lizard family and a filthy liar.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
7/10/06 3:46pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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Is your screen set to be fairly bright, Sil? I can read it fairly easily... Anyone else have this issue?
E_S
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Silmarillion
Title: Manager Emerita/Ex RSA
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
7/11/06 1:31am
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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Yes, it is set fairly bright. Laptops are generally brighter than PCs. But the style sheet's been changed anyway, so it doesn't really matter.
With the new stylesheet, the embedded links are showing up at a smaller font size than the rest of the text. I know you guys put a lot of hard work into it. Am I the only one who finds these small things annoying? Perhaps I should get a hobby, no? 
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http://x-realms.net/ Dang it, Monica! I can't live this charade any longer! I'm not a telephone repairman who stumbled into your life - I'm a Komodo dragon, largest member of the lizard family and a filthy liar.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
7/11/06 4:52pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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Well, you're Australian so I'm willing to accomodate these requests... 
I'll get back to you.
E_S
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
7/11/06 5:24pm
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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There ya go Sil. Gabe was kind enough to change it.
E_S
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Silmarillion
Title: Manager Emerita/Ex RSA
Registered:
Jul '99
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Date Posted:
7/12/06 1:35am
Subject:
RE: Senate Floor Questions and Clarifications Thread
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Brilliant! Thanks to both of you.
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http://x-realms.net/ Dang it, Monica! I can't live this charade any longer! I'm not a telephone repairman who stumbled into your life - I'm a Komodo dragon, largest member of the lizard family and a filthy liar.
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