_Darth_Brooks_ posted:

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LostOnHoth,

"So it is God's will that a person is born homosexual but it is not God's will that a person engage in homosexual sexual activity, even if that sexual activity occurs in a loving relationship?

That's harsh."

Who stated that it's God's will that a person is born homosexual?
In fact, I don't think it has been proven that individuals are born homosexual. To one degree or another everyone experiences realization of physical beauty in members of the same sex. No different from realizing someone is intelligent or a superb athlete.

I think we all are aware of individuals who are bi-sexual, or engage in S & M, or enjoy watching child pornography, or who experience 'sexual addiction', and so on. How do we explain this...that they are simply born that way?

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_Darth_Brooks_ posted:

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Quix,

I think my claim was simply and efficiently that it hasn't been proven or verified.
Of the studies performed, three of which to my understanding were performed by researchers who were themselves gay, which raises certain obvious questions of self-interest, nothing was shown to be conclusive.

Other study data seemed to indicate that greater liklihood that homosexuals were born heterosexual and later developed the homosexual behavior.

If you're aware of a conclusive study I'd certainly be willing to examine it.

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Kandel's Text in PowerPoint Bullet Format posted:

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Greater degree of lesbianism in individuals exposed to excess androgens before birth.

Genetic males with androgen insensitivity syndrome are psychosexual females (develop feminine phenotypes at puberty).

Post-mortem studies of transsexuals show differences in the central nucleus of the bed nucleus of the stria terminalis. (Typically larger in men than women; structure in male-to-female transsexuals is similar in size to women.)

Pedigree analysis found common markers in one sample at Xq28 on the X chromosome.

The suprachiasmatic nucleus is larger in volume and contains more neurons in homosexual men than in heterosexual men.

The hypothalamic nucleus INAH-3 (larger in men than in women) is larger in heterosexual men than in homosexual men.

The midsagittal cross-sectional anterior commissure (larger in women than in men) can be larger in homosexual men.

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Geneticist Francis Collins Responds to NARTH’s Dean Byrd
posted:

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"The evidence we have at present strongly supports the proposition that there are hereditary factors in male homosexuality — the observation that an identical twin of a male homosexual has approximately a 20% likelihood of also being gay points to this conclusion, since that is 10 times the population incidence. But the fact that the answer is not 100% also suggests that other factors besides DNA must be involved. That certainly doesn’t imply, however, that those other undefined factors are inherently alterable.

"Your note indicated that your real interest is in the truth. And this is about all that we really know. No one has yet identified an actual gene that contributes to the hereditary component (the reports about a gene on the X chromosome from the 1990s have not held up), but it is likely that such genes will be found in the next few years."

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Article posted:

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"Homosexuality Is Not Hardwired," Concludes Dr. Francis S. Collins, Head Of The Human Genome Project

"The heritability estimates for personality traits were varied: General Cognitive Ability (50%), Extroversion (54%), Agreeableness (42%), Conscientiousness (49%), Neuroticism (48%), Openness (57%), Aggression (38%) and Traditionalism (54%).

"Kirk et al. (2000) in their research using a community-based cohort of Australian twins reported a heritability estimate of 30% for homosexuality. Whitehead (1999, 2006) in his extensive review of the research cites 30% as the estimate of heritability for homosexuality as well, though he views the estimate as a maximum.

"Estimates of heritability are based upon careful analyses of studies conducted with identical twins. Such studies are important and lead to the conclusion that heredity is important in many of these traits. It is important however, to note that even in such studies with identical twins, that heritability is not to be confused as inevitability.

"As Dr. Collins would agree, environment can influence gene expression, and free will determines the response to whatever predispositions might be present."

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Gay Gene posted:

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Gene Linkage Studies


"Dean Hamer and his colleagues had performed a common type of behavioral genetics investigation called the "linkage study." Researchers identify a behavioral trait that runs in a family, and then:


a) look for a chromosomal variant in the genetic material of that family, and

b) determine whether that variant is more frequent in family members who share the particular trait.


To the layman, the "correlation" of a genetic structure with a behavioral trait means that trait "is genetic"-in other words, inherited.


"In fact, it means absolutely nothing of the sort, and it should be emphasized that there is virtually no human trait without innumerable such correlations."

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_Darth_Brooks_ posted:

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LostOnHoth,

"What is the purpose of prayer? Is it not to connect with God and determine His will on all things? To open a dialogue?"

Partially, but this through self-awareness and self-allowance, reflection. It's a process of growth and maturity of character.



"Clearly, secular humanism has no similar imperative so I don't understand the parallell?"

Only in so far as you mention self-improvement. Some individuals choose meditiation or reflection, which is part of the purpose of prayer.

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Lowbacca_1977 posted:

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A question i'd pose is can someone be a secular humanist, but also be religious, or does the qualities of secular humanism make it imcompatible with being a theist, or at least limiting the types of theism available (deism vs christianity, for example)

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