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Topic:
Atheism Discussion 2.0 - Roundtable Discussion in Progress
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DorkmanScott
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
5/12 8:43pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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No, by saying that I'm answering the question that was asked, and nothing more.
If you're concerned with "points", perhaps you should get it into your head that this is not a competition.
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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Well here's a question I would like answered. Exactly what is wrong with religious thinking?
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:40pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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Alright, I'll keep that under consideration with the list of other suggested subtopics, nancyallen. For when we're not on humanism as a topic.
Dorkman, the direction I was thinking was more if a secular humanism pathway, says not to default to religion, but it doesn't rule outright. Its not a great example, but I'd compare it to people I know that believe its important to have a secular gov't, but at the same time, have very religious views.
It'd also seem that one could take a humanistic pathway, and reach a conclusion like deism, potentially since it seems secular humanism doesn't reject theism, it just requires it to be tested. It doesn't seem to say HOW it has to be tested. Something like a personal spiritual experience seems like it could be counted as someone as having tested it and could, if not leading to a more dogmatic religion, could at least support something like deism.
Though I suppose other secular theists would argue for a more rigorous manner of testing things that would rule out personal experiences, but it doesn't seem to be a necessitity of secular humanism from my brief reading of it.
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/12 9:50pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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I'll rephrase the question. Is secular humanism the be all and end all savior to the world against religion? Is it a magic bullet that will once and for all kill off the delusion of religion and forever free people of it's laws? Why or why not? Would secular humanism even be used as a sword by atheists?
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DorkmanScott
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
5/12 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
- Date Edited:
5/12 10:39pm (4 edits total)
Edited By:
DorkmanScott
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Lowbacca: I wonder if the notion would be rejected by being untestable.
Ultimately I'd say I could accept Deism as a genuine possibility. The question is what it matters. If some God set the laws of the universe in motion and walked away, then what's the point in believing in a God, if not believing in a God achieves the same results? I guess if it helps you sleep at night without having to ponder the beginning of it all, but it still seems like a God of the Gaps "I don't understand it so I'll call it God."
I guess that's just a personal slant on it, though. Hard to say what the Humanism movement would say since, even though I think I agree with them, I'm not a card-carrying member by any means.
I would guess that secular humanism means rejecting notions of the supernatural or the miraculous, which would exclude even a Deist God. Because the question that cannot be dodged from a humanist standpoint, if rejecting the supernatural/miraculous is: Where did God come from? And if God can have always been, why not the universe?
Nancy: Seriously, your obsession with anti-theism is verging on the disturbing. Humanism and anti-theism are unrelated, and you need to stop trying to shoehorn every aspect of possible atheistic philosophies under the umbrella of anti-theism.
Not all atheists are antitheists. Get it. Through. Your skull.
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 4:11am
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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Antitheism what? Exactly why has the topic been diverted to this again? I thought we were discussing humanism. Anyway, a simple no would have sufficed if you did not believe that secular humanism could be used as an argument by atheists.
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VadersLaMent
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 1:26pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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"The word god is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses"
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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--Arthur C. Clarke
Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God--Michael Shermer
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:03pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
- Date Edited:
5/13 3:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
nancyallen
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The Holocaust would still be fresh in the minds of many, something that was meant to be religion based. Einstein was anti war, the German's attempt at conquest of Europe and Africa (and their Japanese allies attempt in the Pacific and America) was led by a supposed Christian. Thus I have no problem in believing that he was upset enough to write about his condemnation of their beliefs, even that he did believe that given their actions their beliefs were wrong.
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Even as I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for God is with me.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:22pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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Well, i figure going off topic to be topical is appropriate.
How do you contend he was 'rejected by Israel" when the article notes "Einstein, who was Jewish and who declined an offer to be the state of Israel's second president,"?
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:38pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
- Date Edited:
5/13 3:49pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
nancyallen
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Excuse the misreading, but the point I was making was that his problems with religion are certainly understandable. However it could be contested that there was any religious motivation behind the atrocities at all. Hitler is meant to be Christian. He was or they say he was? And if he was how is he different from Stalin and Pol Pot? In fact I believe it was less a religious issue and more a case of taking the world back from the Jews, in the case of the Holocaust, and making Germany a world superpower in the case of the war.
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Even as I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for God is with me.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:49pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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There is something intensely dishonest about removing without note where one has made false statements (intentional or otherwise) after having them pointed out.
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/13 3:58pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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Ahem, I HAVE EDITED MY POST TO AMEND THE MISTAKES I MADE IN READING THE ARTICLE, Lowbacca. The New York Post should have it on their front page tomorrow.
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VadersLaMent
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
5/13 4:33pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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I wan't trying to change the subject, it's just an FYI article which cropped up today.
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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--Arthur C. Clarke
Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God--Michael Shermer
I am officially Awesome.
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nancyallen
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
5/14 5:47pm
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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I thought Lowbacca might appreciate this.
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MasterZap
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
5/15 3:24am
Subject:
RE: Atheism Discussion 2.0 - (Humanism, just don't tell Adler..)
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Isn't that the New York TIMES, not the New York POST? 
(Disclaimer: I'm Swedish. I may be wrong, I tried googling for the new york post logo to see it if actually looked like that. )
/Z
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