chibiangi posted:So then maybe we should deny insurance coverage to Blacks because they are more likely to have heart disease, diabetes and sickle cell anemia?
chibiangi posted:My point is that if you are PAYING into the system, you should get the SAME benefits as anyone else.
Lowbacca_1977 posted:I believe, and chibiangi can correct if i misinterpretted, that what was being discussed was health care policy in universal health care. Where, if you're going to create a system everyone is forced to pay into, then everyone should get taken care of with it. Not how it should work with private insurance, where you can basically pick the company and plan you're insured with.
chibiangi posted:I find it disturbing people would actually deny care to people based on their size and race.
Quixotic-Sith posted:It would do nothing to get people to reduce at-risk behaviors (or even cause an increase), which would in turn lead to an increase in those requiring care, and increase the cost of that care. PPOR. You are slippery sloping, KK, and ignoring important variables like cost containment, improved third-party payment, etc. The current spiraling costs of health care are the product of a vicious circle of existing costs, multi-tier coverage, cost inflation due to pennies-on-the-dollar payments by third-party entities with subsequent reliance on overbilling, etc. The health care system is *a lot* more complex than your linear and simplistic presentation of equal payment --> cats and dogs living together. I would like to get back to malkie's original question for a second, however (i.e., the idea of obesity being a choice). I am mesomorphic (linebacker-shaped; 6' 1" with a muscular build), so I put on both fat and muscle easily. My weight has plateaued at 240 lbs, despite my efforts to reduce it. I exercise 5x/week (2-3 mile walk + 60-90 minutes on the elliptical (total of about 1400 calories burned/workout), and weight-lifting 3x/week) and have reduced my caloric intake to <2000/day and eat balanced meals (low-fat proteins, fruits/vegetables, reduced carbohydrate intake). I've been doing this specific program for the past three months, but have followed similar regimes for nearly two years (substitute cycling or additional walking for the elliptical), with little overall change (there was dramatic weight loss initially, but it's been basically a maintenance program since then, much to my chagrin). I am still considered overweight by clinical definitions, but how is this a choice? How is this not taking care of my body? Does it stand to reason that I should pay more for insurance?
chibiangi posted:Well, malkie will tell you that you need to eat 500 calories a day and starve your body into submission, but we both know that your so-called "extra" pounds are by no means unhealthful and your lifestyle is far better than the average person--thick or thin. Which is why basing health insurance benefits solely on weight is absolute garbage. Some people are bigger people. They are also just as healthy as thin people. In fact, as far mortality rates are concerned, people in the so-called "overweight" category of BMI 25-30 have the LOWEST mortality rates of all. The highest? Underweight people. Obese individuals do not meet the same level of mortality "risk" as underweight people until they are in the highest ranges (BMI 40+) So according to KK's assertion health benefits should be tiered to risk, than our very thin brothers and sisters should be paying the highest rates. But no one mentions that because well, frankly, there are more fat people to price gouge.
chibiangi posted:As for your claim that I am playing the race card, KK, no I am not. Whether one wishes to deny coverage or to increase rates to effectively deny coverage the end result is the same--an uninsured individual with no access to health care. You want to say it is based on "risks" and not race, well sickle cell anemia is pretty much unheard of in Caucasians and Asians so pretty much the only people with that risk are going to be Black. Heart disease and diabetes are found in higher rates in Blacks. Blacks are also at the highest risk of being obese (Hispanics are pretty close.) So when you say, sorry your risk is too high due to heart disease, diabetes, and obesity, yes, you are in effect denying health care to people who are also the most likely to need it the most--poor, working class Blacks. And that is pretty much where this argument that obesity=huge health risk ends up--The wholesale discrimination against people based on their body size and in all likelyhood their socioeconomic status and race.
KK posted:There are certain risks that we can't control, and there are others that we can. However, I shouldn't have to pay for your decision to live a riskier life.
chibiangi posted:I also do not believe that overweight/obesity is 100% the individuals fault.
chibiangi posted:Of course, I am not going to take the time to go round it again other than to say it has been shown time and again that body size is a heritable trait and not 100% influenced by environment.
malkieD2 posted:To make excuses about genetic influences on metabolism or body fat handling is a joke. If no fat is going into your mouth then there will be no fat accumulation. I'm very happy to conceed that starving yourself can be equally as unhealthy as stuffing your face with McDonalds, but thats not the point I'm making. All I am trying to say is that your size is simply a product of what goes into your body.
Kimball_Kinnison posted:My genetics might make it easier for me to become addicted, but I am still in control, and I refuse to take the steps that would lead to addiction.
