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Topic:
The Two Koreas
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
10/16/06 7:20pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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I'm sure I could ban you for that, and many would rejoice...  
E_S
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From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
10/17/06 3:21pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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lol NK calls sanctions "immoral" lol
That's right, the UNSC action is immoral. Being entirely reliant on aid to feed your people whilst spending money purely on your army and nuclear programme is the very picture of moral...
E_S
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From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
10/17/06 3:41pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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Ender_Sai posted:
lol NK calls sanctions "immoral" lol
That's right, the UNSC action is immoral. Being entirely reliant on aid to feed your people whilst spending money purely on your army and nuclear programme is the very picture of moral...
E_S
What morons. Hopefully the rest of the world doesn't take the bs statements about war seriously.
Anyone else get the sense that Kim is trying to force a confrontation? And if so, why?
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Third-World Infrastructure.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
10/17/06 4:10pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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Because he's
a) Insane
b) A dick
c) So ronery
d) All of the above
E_S
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shinjo_jedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
10/17/06 5:15pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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North Korea views the U.N. sanctions as a "declaration of war" upon their country. Should be interesting, and scary, how this all turns out. How does one deal with a country like North Korea is the question I keep asking myself, and I'm not sure if there is a clear solution.
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Jediflyer
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
10/17/06 6:22pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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How does one deal with a country like North Korea...
How do you solve a problem like North Korea? 
Maybe if we just sing a song about it, a solution will present itself.
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Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it - Mark Twain
There are no dialogues, only intersecting monologues -Mark Twain
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Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
10/17/06 6:51pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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No, sanctions are not a declaration of war. Sanctions classify as police action. If North Korea wishes to make a war out of this well then that's their problem.
North Korea very much has the right to exist, but it does not have the right to threaten its neighbors with nuclear weapons, and it does not have the right to continue starving its people or to leech off them for their leaders' comfort. If North Korea were to meet these conditions, then we would gladly keep our fingers out of their affairs, but until then....
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shinjo_jedi
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
10/17/06 7:16pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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Alpha-Red posted:
No, sanctions are not a declaration of war. Sanctions classify as police action. If North Korea wishes to make a war out of this well then that's their problem.
It was the headline on Fox News & CNN's website early this morning, but now it is merely a blurp at the top of one of their news articles, stating Pyongyang on Tuesday called the United Nations sanctions resolution approved after the first test a "declaration of war."
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
10/18/06 9:44am
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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shinjo, I too read that "declaration of war" staement and heard it on the news.
So we are at war, at least from the NK perspective.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
10/18/06 11:26am
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
- Date Edited:
10/18/06 11:28am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gonk
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Anyone paying attention to NK's conduct over the past years should not be surprised by this in the least bit... because they are actually consistent.
They've said that sanctions = war to them since at least as far back as the beginning of the protracted crisis back in early 2002.
Why is NK doing this? Probably a number of reasons -- prestige, international power beyond his resource base, and a chance to unify Korea within his lifetime on his terms.
Seriously, would anyone be surprised if this guy turned around and said tomorrow that he insisted on a united Korea that accepted the "ideals of the Democratic Republic" (translation: we feel the US is wrapped up enough in its other responsibilities to invade you now)?
His people have no voice and so his statements do not even need to appeal to a national majority. Even Hugo Chavez has to appeal to the knee-jerk opinions of uninformed Venezualans. He can't, for instance, turn around and start blowing things up without his own people turning on him at some point.
The people of NK will never turn on Jong-Il. After so long it's not even a question of being too afraid of him anymore. It's just become thier reality. Therefore, he can flip-flop his own policies all he likes and it won't make a whit of difference. He could export fudgesicles for the children of Japan one day, then nuke it the next, and not one person in NK would so much as scratch thier head in confusion.
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
10/18/06 11:44am
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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Ender
c) So ronery
(yes, I know what movie it's from! )
Gonk
The people of NK will never turn on Jong-Il. After so long it's not even a question of being too afraid of him anymore. It's just become thier reality.
I'm sure you've seen those images of their "Down with Imperialism" celebration. Sort of a bizzaro-world Olympic ceremony.
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redxavier
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
10/18/06 1:23pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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Alpha-Red posted:
No, sanctions are not a declaration of war. Sanctions classify as police action. If North Korea wishes to make a war out of this well then that's their problem.
North Korea very much has the right to exist, but it does not have the right to threaten its neighbors with nuclear weapons, and it does not have the right to continue starving its people or to leech off them for their leaders' comfort. If North Korea were to meet these conditions, then we would gladly keep our fingers out of their affairs, but until then....
If sanctions were imposed on the United States or the UK by a consortium of foreign powers I'm certain that we wouldn't take it lying down. One man's police action is another's act of war. I hardly find such a hostile stance surprising in light of 1930s American-Japanese relations. You are correct that it's their problem, but that doesn't mean that the countries that impose sanctions are therefore bereft of responsibility.
I'm not sure which neighbours have been threatened with nuclear weapons. There is after all a distinction between saying 'give us food or be nuked' and 'if you want us to stop developing nuclear technology then you've got to us something to make it worth our while'.
But I'm just a North Korea-sympathiser.
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"You've just made me vomit in my own mouth."
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
10/18/06 8:59pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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Why, red?
This is a state which cannot afford to feed it's people but can afford to spend money on an army and a nuclear weapons programme. It is an immoral, unjust entity, and utterly undeserving of your sympathy.
E_S
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
10/18/06 9:09pm
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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And this is an important distinction. The North Korean government diverted such required aid to its military, to the detriment of its own population.
It's not a matter of "give us something to make it worth our while," it is a matter of "we're going to misuse the aid that is given to us."
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Peter Shoomaker
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redxavier
Registered:
Jan '03
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Date Posted:
10/19/06 12:46am
Subject:
RE: The Two Koreas
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I'm not condoning what the NK government does, I merely wish to put their actions into context. We cannot use their hostility after they've been sanctioned as justification for the sanctions and we shouldn't be surprised at any of their actions, since they are fairly consistent.
Jong-Il is no more crazy than most world leaders. He pales in comparison to Quaddafi. But I think people are less concerned with painting a picture of a reasonable man and more with thinking about the Team America puppet. It's easy to fall into the trap of dehumanising an enemy than actually trying to see things from his perspective - regardless of the validity in that perspective.
Everything NK does is for two things; their security and reunification. They divert money and aid away from the people into their military not because they are an aggressive people but because the top echelons live in fear, of the US, of Japan, even her supposed allies, and especially of their own people. It's a fear that borders on paranoia, but it is to a certain extent justified with what the US does - there's no denying that since Bush came into power relations between the two have taken a down turn.
Now I'm not blaming it all on Bush, but a succession of American presidents who failed to make it clear to NK that they were not interested in a regime change. Because that would be the truth right?
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