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Topic:
An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 6:52pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Souderwan posted:
Lord_Vivec posted:
You're just saying that because my graphs own. 
My graphs own more and I have more of them
You've only begun to see my graphs. I have reinforcements!
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
4/24 6:58pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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lol. You have no idea what you're getting into. Send 506 a quick PM about what happens when you ask me to explain my position on something.
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so the winds of forgiveness can make it go away for good. When
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forget the love of a friend." ~Godefroy
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 9:04pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Souderwan posted:
lol. You have no idea what you're getting into. Send 506 a quick PM about what happens when you ask me to explain my position on something.
The Health Care pm? Perhaps I should send you my 12 page college term paper on global warming which got over 100%.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 9:57pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Kimball_Kinnison posted:
For me, the biggest warning flag is the reluctance of anyone to discuss the science behind it in a critical manner. All too often, we are told "It's a fact" by people who aren't even sure themselves what they mean by "it". What is a fact? That the earth is warming up? Sure. That mankind is responsible for it? Not at all. That is a theory, not a fact, and it's not even the only theory supported by the evidence.
If something is so unequivocal from a scientific perspective, then there should be no problem with a critical analysis of it. Science should never be taken on faith. But that is what many people do when they insist that global warming (I mean "climate change") should not be questioned. That is just as much pseudoscience as Intelligent Design.
Kimball Kinnison
I will agree fully with the idea that science should never hide from questioning.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:00pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
Kimball_Kinnison posted:
For me, the biggest warning flag is the reluctance of anyone to discuss the science behind it in a critical manner. All too often, we are told "It's a fact" by people who aren't even sure themselves what they mean by "it". What is a fact? That the earth is warming up? Sure. That mankind is responsible for it? Not at all. That is a theory, not a fact, and it's not even the only theory supported by the evidence.
If something is so unequivocal from a scientific perspective, then there should be no problem with a critical analysis of it. Science should never be taken on faith. But that is what many people do when they insist that global warming (I mean "climate change") should not be questioned. That is just as much pseudoscience as Intelligent Design.
Kimball Kinnison
I will agree fully with the idea that science should never hide from questioning.
This is not a case where science is being questioned. This is a case where people are simply trying to poke holes in an argument for egotism or political purposes.
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:01pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
I will agree fully with the idea that science should never hide from questioning.
While I agree that science should never hide from questioning, I don't think that's the real problem. If there is a problem, it's more political than scientific.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:25pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
- Date Edited:
4/24 10:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lowbacca_1977
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Lord_Vivec posted:
This is not a case where science is being questioned. This is a case where people are simply trying to poke holes in an argument for egotism or political purposes.
They're questioning science, motives aside. Simply put, science shouldn't hide, no matter the criticisms its getting. My view is that science is on a solid enough base that it should be able to hold up to any line of questioning.
I know others disagree with me on this, but I don't like to avoid those challenges. Which is why, for work, I end up engaging people that do some of the following
- Don't believe we ever landed on the moon
- gov't is covering up secret bases on the moon
- think that there is no evidence for global warming
- think that evolution is 'just a theory'
- think that the Big Bang is 'just a theory'
- consider astrology to be reliable
- think the world will end in 2012
- believe in Nemesis
That's all within the last couple of months, and I only work this job once or twice a week. And none of those were situations where I simply said "well, science says its this". Every time its working to explain the reasoning behind it, and some of those people do change their views, at least somewhat.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:27pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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And I have not been providing facts to back up my point?
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:33pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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That point was in a general sense, and I have, in general, seen this happen with global warming too much that people take exactly that responce of "its consensus, so I don't need to show evidence"
Its an issue much more in the general discussion, and how the public is exposed to and deals with global warming than in this particular thread.
I'd also REALLY like to see what other explanation for the warming K_K's aware of.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:38pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
That point was in a general sense, and I have, in general, seen this happen with global warming too much that people take exactly that responce of "its consensus, so I don't need to show evidence"
Its an issue much more in the general discussion, and how the public is exposed to and deals with global warming than in this particular thread.
I'd also REALLY like to see what other explanation for the warming K_K's aware of.
There are a few others, but they have debunked. Volcano eruptions have been a prominent one of these theories for warming, but it turns out that it actually lowers global warming.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:43pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Well, I'm aware of those, but he mentioned one that fit the observations. I know solar output sems to explain a large amount of 1900-1950 increase in temperature.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
4/24 10:53pm
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
Well, I'm aware of those, but he mentioned one that fit the observations. I know solar output sems to explain a large amount of 1900-1950 increase in temperature.
Solar output causes about +0.2 degrees Celsius of gross climate forcing.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
4/25 4:20am
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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- think the world will end in 2012
Dude. The world is totally going to end in 2012.
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king_alvarez
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
4/25 6:17am
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Lord_Vivec posted:
I've stated earlier that we're not going to get rid of global warming. What I'm saying is that if we don't manage it, global warming is going to get rid of us. All we have to do is manage emissions and we can stop the gloom and doom. We won't stop global warming. Nothing will. But we can manage it.
What I'm saying is that we can't manage it. Managing emissions will not stop the climate from changing, most likely in ways that we cannot accurately predict.
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king_alvarez
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
4/25 6:22am
Subject:
RE: An Inconvenient Thread: Causes and Effects of Global Warming
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Lord_Vivec posted:
Lowbacca_1977 posted:
Well, I'm aware of those, but he mentioned one that fit the observations. I know solar output sems to explain a large amount of 1900-1950 increase in temperature.
Solar output causes about +0.2 degrees Celsius of gross climate forcing.
CO2 alone can't explain the global temperature changes in the last 100 years, as increases in CO2 do not match recorded temperature patterns. So obviously there are other factors that contribute to climate change. And I tend to be a bit leery of climate models that may explain historical trends but fail miserably at predicting future trends.
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Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"
Because life... is not a movie. Everyone lies. Good guys lose. And love... does not conquer all.
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