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Topic:
People Who Are Screwing Up America: Scott Harshbarger/Myron Magnet/Peter Singer/Marvin Olasky
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Jediflyer
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
6/7/07 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America: Markos Moulitsas/Jack Oliver/Ann Pelo/Mark Hyman
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Kos is great. His site is the epitome of incorporating the internet into political participation.
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Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it - Mark Twain
There are no dialogues, only intersecting monologues -Mark Twain
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
6/7/07 3:48pm
Subject:
RE: 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America: Markos Moulitsas/Jack Oliver/Ann Pelo/Mark Hyman
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The site, primarily the comments, is way too much vitrol. I think the part of "internet" it incorporated wasn't really a part worth incorporating. As though politics didn't have enough vitrol and baseless attacks already.
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Jediflyer
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
6/7/07 4:01pm
Subject:
RE: 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America: Markos Moulitsas/Jack Oliver/Ann Pelo/Mark Hyman
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I don't bother reading the comments and bloggers shouldn't really be responsible for them, just like editorial writers shouldn't be responsible for the content of the Letters to the Editor Page.
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Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it - Mark Twain
There are no dialogues, only intersecting monologues -Mark Twain
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
6/7/07 7:11pm
Subject:
RE: 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America: Markos Moulitsas/Jack Oliver/Ann Pelo/Mark Hyman
- Date Edited:
6/7/07 7:16pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lowbacca_1977
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I've also heard numerous allegations that commenters posting too far from the preferred views get banned from the commenting there. If its the credit for creating what DailyKos is, I don't think thats any particular achievement, per se. Now, if he was saying things as a blogger that were what his claim was that I felt were his main contribution rather than the KosKommunity, then that would be a different matter. But the stuff I've read from Kos himself, while limited, has not impressed me.
Though Kos' responce to the four killed at Fallujah is more than "he did not mourn", as to quote Kos on the matter, "They aren't in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them.
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/15/07 9:43am
Subject:
RE: 100 People Who Are Screwing Up America: Markos Moulitsas/Jack Oliver/Ann Pelo/Mark Hyman
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Goldberg's 50:
John Vasconcellos
Democratic politician from California; Goldberg blasts him for his work in what Goldberg calls the 'self-esteem' movement. Advocates retooling the grading system in school in order to help even failing students have better self-esteem.
Huberman's 50:
Lowry Mays & Clear Channel Communications
Huberman blasts Clear Channel for making radio bland and homogenous; also for pushing small local channels out of business. And also, of course, for being conservative; he cites Clear Channel's boycotts of The Dixie Chicks after their remark about G.W. Bush and also their firing of Howard Stern as indicative of their deeper philosophy.
Goldberg's 49:
Ingrid Newkirk
President of PETA; what more needs to be said? Goldberg quotes her saying that while the Holocaust was a tragedy, more chickens die every year in broilers. Even Huberman throws her a mention in his book, in the entry on Bo Pilgrim, using the same quote and stating that he really doesn't blame Goldberg for putting her on his list. A rare moment of synchronicity.
Huberman's 49:
The Wall Street Journal Editors
While the Wall Street Journal has a reputation as a liberal publication, Huberman blasts the editorial staff for creating one of the most blindly conservative editorial sections of print media. He calls attention to the almost schizophrenic divide between the Journal's news and editorial divisions.
My thoughts:
I'm no fan of radio in general and when Huberman talks about how homogenous it's become, he's preaching to the choir with me.
Not familiar with the Journal's editorial stuff really.
I'm no fan of the self-esteem movement when carried to an extreme which Vasconcellos seems to do; is he a first cause or a symptom? Not sure.
And I think we can all agree that Newkirk takes an issue that deserves some attention and turns it into a frenzy of idiocy; her arrogance is stunning in its own particular way and she does more harm to the cause of animal rights than good, in my opinion, with her ludicrous antics.
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/21/07 10:46am
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America:J. Vasconcellos/L. Mays/I. Newkirk/Wall Street Journal Editor
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Goldberg's 48:
Robert Byrd
Oldest member of Congress; Democratic Senator from West Virginia and current president pro tem. Infamously a member of the Klan in his younger years who vociferously argued against racially integrating the military. Filibustered the Civil Rights Act of 1964; claims to no longer be a racist, but caused a firestorm of controversy in 2005 by remarking that there were 'white n*******, as well as black. Argued against the Iraq War and called Bush a 'deskbound' president assuming the 'garb of a warrior.'
Huberman's 48:
Kenneth Tomlinson
One time chairman of the Corportation for Public Broadcasting; accused the CPB of having 'liberal bias.' Accused Bill Moyers, among others, of pushing a liberal agenda. (Bill Moyers?!)
Goldberg's 47:
Maxine Waters
Democratic Representative from Southern California; among the controversies: co-author of a bill to impeach Vice President Cheney, called George W. Bush a 'dumb-ass,' and stated that the LA riots of 1992 were the result of 'righteous anger.'
Huberman's 47:
Elaine Chao
Current secretary of Labor; first asian american woman to be appointed to a presidential cabinent. At this time, she is the only original cabinet member remaining. I don't recall what Huberman found so offensive about her, sadly.
My thoughts:
Goldberg's two choices are both examples of rather annoying politics at work; Waters and Byrd are both prone to say incredibly stupid things but also to say incredibly insightful things. Politics at work; one minute you're slapping your forehead, the next applauding. If we could find a few people who were smart all the time we could change the world.
As for Huberman's picks, I only know of Tomlinson what Huberman said, which made me think Tomlinson is something of a dimwit. And I support the CPB whole heartedly.
As for Chao, I think she's done some good; don't recall specifically what Huberman found so offensive about her.
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darthdrago
Registered:
Dec '03
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Date Posted:
6/22/07 7:46am
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Robert Byrd/Kenneth Tomlinson/Maxine Waters/Elaine Chao
- Date Edited:
6/22/07 7:48am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
darthdrago
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Byrd
What bugs me about Byrd is that, IMO, he gets a free pass on his earlier history of racism by being in the Democratic Party. When Mississippi Republican Trent Lott made a bonehead move and suggested the country would have been better off had Strom Thurmond (in his Dixiecrat, pro-segregation days) been elected president, minority groups and liberal minded-folks practically marched on DC carrying pitchforks and torches, demanding Lott's ouster. An idiotic comment to be sure, but it hardly compares to once having active membership in the Klan. If Byrd was in the GOP, he likely would have been voted out for that long ago, regardless of any conciliation-making. He's like a successful David Duke.
Tomlinson
In some ways I do think that the CPB & PBS is of, for, and by liberals, but considering that their ratings don't compare with major networks, I hardly think Tomlinson & the CPB/PBS are doing as much damage as Huberman wants us to believe.
Waters
A classic career politician and demagogue. If Al Sharpton was a female, this is who he'd be. Back in the day (I think it was around the same time as the riots of 1992) an urban legend started claiming that the CIA was actually behind the crack epidemic, to cause poor black Americans to prey upon each other and make themselves permanently weak and push them to extinction. Waters jumped all over this story and I think she even called for a Congressional investigation into said claims. However, she had a habit of voting for military spending bills, as her district had many of the same poor black Americans who desperately needed to work in factories & plants that made military equipment. Gee, that's not hypocritical at all.
Chao
Don't know anything about her. The fact that she's hardly been a news headline all these years must mean she's harmless compared to Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Libby/Cheney, et al. Isn't this another one of Huberman's fill-in-the-gaps spots by picking on somebody just because they're a Bush appointee?
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Darth Mischievous
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
6/22/07 6:32pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Robert Byrd/Kenneth Tomlinson/Maxine Waters/Elaine Chao
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Boy, I loathe Maxine Waters.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
6/22/07 8:30pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Robert Byrd/Kenneth Tomlinson/Maxine Waters/Elaine Chao
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I can't stand Maxine Waters. Another one of these useless politicians that just frustrate me in so cal. Intriguingly, I didn't know she was black till like last year.
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
6/29/07 11:03am
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Robert Byrd/Kenneth Tomlinson/Maxine Waters/Elaine Chao
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Goldberg's 46:
Barbara Walters
Goldberg once again beating the 'news as entertainment' story; he flogs her interviews with people like Britney Spears as being groundbreaking in putting forth pop fluff as legitimate news. Goldberg brings up the (untrue) story of her asking Katherine Hepburn "If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?" and, of course the (true) story of her stating that for "Castro, freedom begins with education."
Huberman's 46:
Mitch McConnell
Top ranking Congressional Republican. Huberman mostly attacks him for his work against the McCain/Feinberg act and against campaign finance reform in general, which he believes in unconstitutional.
Goldberg's 45:
Ken Lay
Goldberg attacks the mindset that lead to the Enron scandal as elitist, arrogant and utterly unethical. He paints Lay as the darkest side of American capitalism, the big guy with no morals.
Huberman's 45:
Democratic *******
Huberman blasts Democrats for failing to stand up to the President in the days leading up to the Iraq war. They are, he claims, as much to blame as anyone for failing to call the President on his lack of a plan and faulty intelligence. He claims that Democrats have forgotten how to be an opposition party.
My thoughts:
Of course we can have no beef with Ken Lay's placement on the list; he certainly stands for something utterly repugnant in American society. Likewise, I find McConnell's arguments against campaign finance reform laughable; I'm a supporter of reform in this area in a big way.
Of the Democratic *ahem* 'wimps,' we can only say that in the past few months the Democratic party has begun to find its feet again as an opposition party.
And Walters I loathe, but it's more a personal thing than any deep philosophical issue. 
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon
Registered:
Dec '00
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Date Posted:
6/29/07 11:50am
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Barbara Walters/Mitch McConnell/Ken Lay/Democratic *******
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Rogue1-and-a-half posted:
And Walters I loathe, but it's more a personal thing than any deep philosophical issue.
I'll give her this, though: Barbara Walters makes me think of Baba Wawa, and anything that reminds me of the late, great Gilda Radner can't be all bad.
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Rogue1-and-a-half
Title: Manager: Amphitheatre
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
7/10/07 9:47am
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Barbara Walters/Mitch McConnell/Ken Lay/Democratic *******
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Goldberg's 44:
Dennis Kozlowski
Former CEO of Tyco International; appropriated over 400 million dollars worth of funds for personal use. He claims to have done nothing criminal; his compensation package was simply 'embarrassingly large,' but kept openly on the company books. His first trial ended in a mis-trial after a juror was threatened; the second ended in conviction. He is currently serving an eight year sentence. He is most infamous for a million dollar birthday party for his wife (paid for by the company, under the name stockholder meeting) and for having six thousand dollar shower curtains in his New York Apartment.
Huberman's 44:
Samuel Rob Walton
Eldest son of Sam Walton, founder of Walmart and the current chairman of the board. Huberman attacks Walmart as a retailer that pretends to have a family image but in fact drives family owned businesses out and then jacks up prices. He also attacks the company's policy on unions, which they are notoriously hard line against.
Goldberg's 43:
Paul Eibeler
Ex-CEO of Take-Two Interactive, a company most famous for the controversial series, Grand Theft Auto, games infamous for violence, criminal behavior and sexually explicit material.
Huberman's 43:
J. Dennis Hastert
Republican Speaker of the House, up until the switch to Nancy Pelosi. There has been controversy regarding Hastert's campaign finances; he has connections to Jack Abramaoff and has at times pushed through legislation that has served to enrich himself, as in the case of a freeway development plan that goes through land he owns. He has been criticized for remarks indicating the George Soros is involved with drug cartels, for consistently blocking legislation recognizing the Armenian genocide in Turkey and for his role in hiding Mark Foley's inappropriate behavior with House pages.
My thoughts:
I know people who worked at Walmart; as a job, it's quite awful, from what they tell me and in a bigger way than the usual 'gripe about the job' rants. I particularly find their squashing of unions to be unethical. But I do shop there, so hooray for moral hypocrisy!
I'm no fan of the GTA series; I don't think they cause crime, but they're not my thing. I do find them somewhat bottom feeding.
Hastert is probably no worse than most politicians; it's simply his position of power that makes him have more potential for damage. No fan of Pelosi, but one could hardly lament Hastert's downfall.
Kozlowski, I am in complete agreement with Goldberg on. A particularly egregious example of bad behavior and corruption.
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
7/10/07 9:58am
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Barbara Walters/Mitch McConnell/Ken Lay/Democratic *******
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Hastert is probably no worse than most politicians; it's simply his position of power that makes him have more potential for damage. No fan of Pelosi, but one could hardly lament Hastert's downfall.
Locally, Hastert still shines as a politician though. He has accomplished too many things to list with regards to acting in the interests of the constituents of the IL 14th District.
Judy Biggert, who is Rep for the IL 13th District (which shares a border with Hastert's 14th District) and Hastert are still extremely popular on the homefront.
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CitizenKane
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
7/10/07 10:20am
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Dennis Kozlowski/Samuel Walton/Paul Eibeler/J. Dennis Haste
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I know people who worked at Walmart; as a job, it's quite awful, from what they tell me and in a bigger way than the usual 'gripe about the job' rants. I particularly find their squashing of unions to be unethical. But I do shop there, so hooray for moral hypocrisy!
Not to be mean or disregarding of a bad employer, but can't you work somewhere else? Maybe if the populace didn't settle jobs like that, Walmart would rethink.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
7/10/07 6:08pm
Subject:
RE: People Who Are Screwing Up America: Dennis Kozlowski/Samuel Walton/Paul Eibeler/J. Dennis Haste
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Kozlowski... totally agree.
Walton... I have some issues with Walmart... and I personally don't shop there because the only one near me is outside city lines, and so I shop within city limits so the city gets tax money and I'm still a bit bitter about the small businesses that shut down after wal-mart showed up. But then again, most big businesses do that to an area so i don't, overall, hold it against them.
Eibeler... I disagree with trying to tie video games to causing violence as personally I view them as an outlet. To paraphrase a comedian (Jackie Kashian) "Some games little kids shouldn't play. But I'm a grown person. And I need to shoot ****. I think it best that occur fictionally, don't you?"
Hastert... take issue with the Armenian genocide bit, but other than that.... I'd like to know if Huberman included some of the other politicans that are tied to direct (Jefferson of LA) or indirect (Feinstein of CA) benefits from their office via either bribes or voting in ways they benefit personally.
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