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Topic:
The New Iraq, Five Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/1/07 2:04pm
Subject:
The New Iraq, Five Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
3/25 1:08pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Lowbacca_1977
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The consensus seems to be that everyone wants a thread to discuss Iraq, but some expressed a concern that the prior thread had become too unwieldy and out of control.
A new year brings with it new analysis of Iraq.
Here's the latest Department of Defense report that was delivered to Congress:
HERE
Do US concerns parallel Iraqi concerns? The DOD uses 3 broad performance categories that are then broken down into specific points:
1)Political
2)Economic
3)Security
The ongoing problems in Iraq can be traced to the current level of Sectarian violence. With the start of a new year, what path needs to be taken in Iraq and how would it fit within a broader policy?
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/1/07 4:48pm
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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before anything else is posted, i'd like to wish a fond farewell to Red-Seven's thread, which provided an unbroken discussion from the end of major combat operations to the end of 2006 (covering a period lasting from 2003-06). i doubt you would find much in the way of parallel discussions elsewhere on the web. not of that quality and length, at least.
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Shadow_of_Evil
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/1/07 5:25pm
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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Bye Bye Red-Seven's thread. 
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I love climbing, because it feels so good when I stop....
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
1/1/07 7:48pm
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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Eh, moving on isn't a bad thing either.
And Shadow, it's salaam. 
E_S
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Shadow_of_Evil
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/1/07 9:40pm
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
1/1/07 9:44pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Shadow_of_Evil
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Hahaha, good catch.
Insha'Allah, I will fix it. 
Anyhoo, the US death toll hit 3000 for the New Years start.
Happy New Year 
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Blue_Jedi33
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
1/1/07 10:16pm
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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The faster they get that new hi-tech armour going the better for the average infantry man, I was reading about this new liquid armour that is suppose to be awesome against IED. Maybe thats where they need to put the money into now, not these fancy toys that do nothing to fight a grass roots insurgency. Protect the front line soldier because this will be the type of combat soldiers will be seeing in 21st century conflicts. And body bags coming home with no progress equals most Americans thinking Ok let's get out, it's not worth it. In fact there was a poll the other day that said around 60% now disaprove of this war the same % as those opposed to the Vietnam war in the early seventies.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
1/1/07 11:58pm
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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The hi-tech armour isn't a solution to the cause of the problem; it just ensures taht the problem continues unabated but the armour is better.
I'm not sure what we can do about fixing the problems though. Certainly, the concerns of Sunnis who fear some measure of Shi'ite and Kurdish retribution will be enacted via law is valid and should be addressed by the Iraqi parliament, for starters...
E_S
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Shadow_of_Evil
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 12:35am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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The hi-tech armour isn't a solution to the cause of the problem; it just ensures taht the problem continues unabated but the armour is better.
That's what I wanted to post, more or less, but unlike you I had nothing to follow through with
To me, the bodyarmour upgrade is like a bandaid for a gushing wound. It'll help lower the immediate threat to the soldiers but they should be more focus on prevention.
Then again, if I was a soldier in Iraq I'm sure I'd say the opposite; and rightly so.
some measure of Shi'ite and Kurdish retribution will be enacted via law
In what way do you mean? More prosecutions or what?
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Fluke_Groundrunner
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 8:04am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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It is looking like Bush has decided to increase the troop count in Iraq, as an attempt to improve control and security there. This is one of the options recommended by the Pentagon's report, but I believe the Iraq Study Group's report is against that idea, and the general consensus seems to be that more troops will only create a temporary fix.
How will increasing the troops actually make a difference with
a) the insurgency and
b) the sectarian violence?
I also propose some questions.
First, what happens if the troops are pulled from Iraq, with the expectation that the Iraqis will find a way to make things work, and as long as they don’t put into power another ruthless dictator, the troops won’t come back? Allow them chance to fix it themselves.
Second, what about dividing Iraq so that Shiites and Sunnis can have their own sections? Is that a crazy idea? Why would it work or not work?
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 8:15am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
- Date Edited:
1/2/07 8:19am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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We can all agree that 2006 was, to put it mildly, a disappointing year for Iraq. The Askariya Mosque bombing last February may go down in history as one of the most successful terrorist attacks ever in terms of achieving its strategic objective, not that things were going well in Iraq prior to that. Nevertheless, it certainly set the tone for all that has followed. The year ended with the disappointment of the Iraq Study Group's report - the only positive thing to come out of it really was as a kind of codification of the need for a radical strategic change.
Casey will be leaving Iraq soon. Maybe sooner than planned. Call that a clear indicator that Bush sees a troop surge as a necessary short term tactic. I have trouble disagreeing with the President that it has to be tried before abandoning Iraq. And if a troop surge fails, then partitioning Iraq has to go back on the table as something else we need to work with the Iraqis on achieving before we abandon them.
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Septhaka
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 8:56am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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Fluke posted:
Second, what about dividing Iraq so that Shiites and Sunnis can have their own sections? Is that a crazy idea? Why would it work or not work?
This type of partitioning would not likely work for three critical reasons. First, Iraq is not well-suited to partitioning due to the configuration of its natural resources. If partitioned along Kurd/Sunni/Shia lines then the Sunni would control Iraq's water supply and the Shia would control Iraq's petroleum resources. This feeds the other two reasons. Second, there is little political will in Iraq for such a partitioning. Even the Shia do not want partitioning. Third, Iraq's neighbors, most notably Saudi Arabia and Turkey, would not likely support a partitioning because it will invariably lead to regional instability, skirmishes and wars, and potential expand the central Sunni/Shia conflict to the wider region.
When I have more time to respond I will post a formal post to this thread. Suffice to say the US objective of a Iraqi democracy was and likely will never be attainable in my opinion.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 11:26am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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I really think that old thread ought to be preserved somehow.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 11:35am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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well, unless the entire board crashes and all the data is lost, it's not going anywhere.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 11:48am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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Does the US have an Iraq policy beyond getting the hell out of there as soon as possible?
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Jediflyer
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 11:51am
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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G-FETT posted:
Does the US have an Iraq policy beyond getting the hell out of there as soon as possible?
Well, the current U.S. policy is to stay there forever.
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Fluke_Groundrunner
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/2/07 12:10pm
Subject:
RE: The New Iraq, Three Years and Counting: Current Discussion Thread
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Gonk posted:
I really think that old thread ought to be preserved somehow.
Edit it and create a binded book out of it, then sell it on Amazon. It will be the "FanForce Iraqi Report: A Discussion with Every Possible Insight"
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