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Topic:
Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 10:13am
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: super hoax
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The thing that interests me the most about Scifi is that it is basically a reflection of ourselves. As such it is totally irrelevant and useless to try and figure out what exactly ET would look like or do. If you believe mankind fundamentally good you might think aliens are peaceful and want to come down and sip tea with us or something. If you don't live under a rock you will assume that either the aliens would have wiped us out if they bothered to come here so they could take advantage of the resources, or would have destroyed us because we are so barbaric.
The idea that the government could keep UFOs secret places far too much trust in both the government and not nearly enough in the aliens.
On a theological level, it wouldn't make sense for a Supreme being to create such a vast universe with just one dinky little planet to house all of his living creations. But I see no reason why the rest of God's creations would want to come here, we're worse than Bagdad, we were the ones who killed God's son.
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Beowulf
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 10:29am
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
- Date Edited:
1/10/07 10:45am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Beowulf
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Who says that other alien civilizations haven't also killed one of God's sons?
If NTIs (non-terrestrial intelligence) have visited Earth, and have come into contact with the government, do you think that any smart government would trust its people with such information? Anybody remember the panic caused by Orson Welles' recitation of War of the Worlds and the mass panic it caused?
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 10:32am
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Espaldapalabras posted:
If you don't live under a rock you will assume that either the aliens would have wiped us out if they bothered to come here so they could take advantage of the resources, or would have destroyed us because we are so barbaric.
Considering that we haven't exactly met any other alien races to compare ourselves to, that's not exactly fair.
For example, as violent as humanity may be, that could also just be a common developmental stage for any society. An alien race wouldn't necessarily destroy us, because they could always recognize that we are in that stage of development, and want to help guide us along (think of alien races like the Vorlons, the Arisians, and so forth that try to guide civilizations).
Kimball Kinnison
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 12:16pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Beowulf posted:
Maybe we really aren't denizens of Earth, but aliens that were thrown out of galactic society for being violent, and Earth is our prison...
Been going to the Church of Scientology?
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Beowulf
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 12:24pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Actually no. I've been suffering a good amount of depression lately, and that happened to be an idea that came up in my head one afternoon, and I started laughing my arse off. My brother's a Scientologist, and I find their "religion" to be 100% ridiculous.
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"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy."
Benjamin Franklin
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 12:36pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
- Date Edited:
1/10/07 12:44pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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The idea of "moral progress" of the species is a hoax. Does anyone really believe that the species' moral/ethical advancement has evolved in step with our technological achievements? As Espaldapalabras notes, we project onto our fantasies of alien species our self-aggrandizing misapprehensions about ourselves.
Anyway, we've never been visited by intelligent life from beyond our solar system. The odds of other intelligent species having evolved on other planets elsewhere in the universe seem pretty good to me, but that's just a hunch. No one knows what the odds are.
The universe may be teeming with intelligent life. At the same time, the universe seems almost ingeniously "designed" to keep us all apart. Interstellar travel may be impossible.
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VadersLaMent
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 1:04pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Backwater? There is nothing 'backwater' about our location in the galaxy. It's actually a great place to be in. I don't understand this idea that we would automatically be wiped out by anyone looking in on us. Sounds more like a personal hatred of humankind. Interstellar travel by slower than light travel is not impossible, just very difficult.
The Grays, The Nordics, The Lizard People, Bigfoot, the Lochness Monster, those are hoaxes. SETI does not = anal probing aliens with big eyes.
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Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic--Arthur C. Clarke
Any sufficiently advanced extraterrestrial intelligence is indistinguishable from God--Michael Shermer
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 1:23pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
- Date Edited:
1/10/07 1:25pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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Sounds more like a personal hatred of humankind.
There's no need to take it personally. Again, using the "War of the Worlds" ETs as an example - they didn't mean it in a personal way. From our point of view it might look like a cruel bid to exterminate humankind. From their point of view, they just needed the fertilizer.
Exterminating the neanderthals just seemed like the natural thing for **** sapiens to do. Neanderthals weren't "human" and they took up space and resources that the **** sapiens wanted. It wasn't meant personally.
Edit: "****sapiens" 
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Dark_Nexium
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 1:43pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
- Date Edited:
1/10/07 1:45pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Dark_Nexium
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Well my take on it is veried depending on how and what you asked me of it. Well to start off if you asked me do I think intelligent life is possible then I would say "Yes, but there is also a higher chance of finding non-intelligent life on other worlds". As far as space travel is possible it in fact is and even on that great scale. Remember that humanity went through the Dark Ages and in that time period we were held back from our potential and possibly by now we could have had flying cars and all that future crap you hear about. The biggest idea that I have had crammed into my head was one where other planets in other galaxies have very much advanced well beyond us and have made an alliance once those planets have become either peacefull on the entire planet or have become open minded enough to accept that there is more to the world than just them. Well if that one is true then humans are not going to be part of that alliance in my lifetime because we are neither completely peacefull nor are we that open minded to forsake what we thought to be true.
ALSO GET THIS IN YOUR HEAD. IF THEY WERE MUCH MORE ADVANCED THAN US THEN THEY WOULDNT WIPE US OUT BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN EXCEPT A PATHETIC ROCK WITH SOME OCEANS ON IT.
Sad but true.
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DorkmanScott
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 1:48pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Jabbadabbado posted:
The idea of "moral progress" of the species is a hoax. Does anyone really believe that the species' moral/ethical advancement has evolved in step with our technological achievements?
I think if it hadn't, we would all have been destroyed long ago in nuclear fire.
Jabbadabbado posted:
Sounds more like a personal hatred of humankind.
There's no need to take it personally. Again, using the "War of the Worlds" ETs as an example - they didn't mean it in a personal way. From our point of view it might look like a cruel bid to exterminate humankind. From their point of view, they just needed the fertilizer.
Actually, according to the WOTW narrator, the Martians (as they were in the original story) did actively hate us.
Jabbadabbado posted:
Exterminating the neanderthals just seemed like the natural thing for **** sapiens to do. Neanderthals weren't "human" and they took up space and resources that the **** sapiens wanted. It wasn't meant personally.
If you want to talk about projecting human fantasies onto alien beings, we should talk about the assumption that they would require oxygen, water, or other "resources" Earth would provide to survive.
VadersLaMent posted:
Backwater? There is nothing 'backwater' about our location in the galaxy. It's actually a great place to be in.
Our solar system is on the fringe of a galaxy on the fringe of the universe. Though I think the word is a little exaggerated, I don't think "backwater" is too far off the mark.
M. Scott
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 2:05pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
- Date Edited:
1/10/07 2:07pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthBoba
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Dorkman Scott posted:
Our solar system is on the fringe of a galaxy on the fringe of the universe. Though I think the word is a little exaggerated, I don't think "backwater" is too far off the mark.
I'd rather be in the hardworking & independent Outer Rim Territories than the decadent, corrupt Core Worlds myself. 
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 2:09pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Dark_Nexium posted:
ALSO GET THIS IN YOUR HEAD. IF THEY WERE MUCH MORE ADVANCED THAN US THEN THEY WOULDNT WIPE US OUT BECAUSE THEY WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO GAIN EXCEPT A PATHETIC ROCK WITH SOME OCEANS ON IT.
Well, Earth would be a pretty rare as a habitable planet, and any civilization advanced enough to reach here would probably have overpopulation and food/water resource problems...
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Beowulf
Registered:
May '99
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 2:10pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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I used backwater because it was more descriptive than "on the fringe of the galaxy". Better to be descriptive than to be technical, I deal with enough technical crap at work.
I agree with DorkmanScott, because if we hadn't had some moral progress by the Cuban Missle Crisis, that crisis would've become The Nuclear War.
Interstellar travel is not impossible. Nothing is. It may be improbable or unlikely, but it isn't impossible. Same goes for the existence of NTIs.
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Darth_wanderguard
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 2:14pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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DorkmanScott posted:
Jabbadabbado posted:
The idea of "moral progress" of the species is a hoax. Does anyone really believe that the species' moral/ethical advancement has evolved in step with our technological achievements?
I think if it hadn't, we would all have been destroyed long ago in nuclear fire.
Jabbadabbado posted:
Sounds more like a personal hatred of humankind.
There's no need to take it personally. Again, using the "War of the Worlds" ETs as an example - they didn't mean it in a personal way. From our point of view it might look like a cruel bid to exterminate humankind. From their point of view, they just needed the fertilizer.
Actually, according to the WOTW narrator, the Martians (as they were in the original story) did actively hate us.
Jabbadabbado posted:
Exterminating the neanderthals just seemed like the natural thing for **** sapiens to do. Neanderthals weren't "human" and they took up space and resources that the **** sapiens wanted. It wasn't meant personally.
If you want to talk about projecting human fantasies onto alien beings, we should talk about the assumption that they would require oxygen, water, or other "resources" Earth would provide to survive.
VadersLaMent posted:
Backwater? There is nothing 'backwater' about our location in the galaxy. It's actually a great place to be in.
Our solar system is on the fringe of a galaxy on the fringe of the universe. Though I think the word is a little exaggerated, I don't think "backwater" is too far off the mark.
M. Scott
The fringe of the universe?
I was unaware our instruments were advanced enough for us to know that
I still say that if we haven't been visited, it's because we're probably just not that important. Consider the events in Star Wars. Pretty much a Galaxy spanning story. Did a little mudball on the outskirts of the Galaxy, not advanced enough to know what was going on even really matter enough for anyone to want to visit it?
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anidanami124
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 2:16pm
Subject:
RE: Extraterrestrials: real, or a hoax? v.2
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Do I believe there is other life out there in the big black space? Yes do I believe they have come to earth. Me really no I don't believe extraterrestrials have come to earth. Though that's just me. For all I know they really have. I just find it hard to believe that they keep pick up people who happen to live in the middle of nowhere.
I mean why not just stop by one of are big cities? Why do they keep going and picking up Bill bob and Mary Sue?
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