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Author Topic: The Comprehensive Illegal Immigrant Thread
Ender_Sai 
Title: Manager Emeritus
 Registered: Feb '01
44324_Kyle Katarn
Date Posted: 3/16 1:27am Subject: RE: The Comprehensive Illegal Immigrant Thread
Lowbacca_1977 posted:
I suspect KK is talking about remittances from people here illegally in particular, not remittances in general.


Frankly, we can't make people think that they have a future in Mexico. Mexico is the one that can do that, and its failing at it. However, we do have the ability to make them feel like they don't have a viable future if they were to come to the U.S. illegally.

Example: I could increase the money I'm making by dealing drugs. Very profitable. However, I don't do so (and mind, I'm pro-drug legalisation) becuase the money I could make dealing drugs is simply not worth the risks and potential legal punishment I could face.


I think this thinking is highly problematic for a few reasons Lowie.

Firstly, the US can work on building capacity in Mexico that will make people see a future there.

Secondly, you've just fallen into the classic American trap of thinking it's up to others to solve American problems. Believe me, I see this every day and won't miss it when I shift industries.

The Australian Government doesn't have the money the US or EU has to spend, but we need influence because without cooperation we will see an influx in boatload arrivals in Australia. So we have to be strategic in our investment in political capital - we couldn't drop $40mil on a border management system and walk away like DHS could - so we found a really neat solution.

We regionalised the problem.

We knew that we would get nothing by saying "illegal migration is a problem in Australia, and it's coming from your side, you need to fix it" because they'd say "it's not our problem!"

And they're partially right. So we made it a regional issue and we emphasised cooperation.

The reason I bring this up, and I already know Tina won't see the relevance so hi Tina! /wave, is that for us, illegal immigration to Australia is bad but it's not a problem for Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand et al. What is a problem we all share is illegal migration. The same system that can work to stem tides from Malaysia into Brunei Darusaalam or Indonesia can work in the GMS (Greater Mekong Subregion, from China through Cambodia, Laos, Thailand).

So, illegals entering the US from Mexico is a problem for the US, not Mexico, right?

Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't Mexico have a problem on it's southern border with central Americans entering Mexico illegally?

If I went to El Salvador, Guatemala, Belize, Panama, and I asked the governments was illegal migration a concern and a problem for them, I would bet money the answer was yes. If I asked, "is it a concern for you that your citizens are illegally migrating to the USA?", it wouldn't rank nearly as highly on their list.

If the US could find the courage to a) show leadership and b) stop telling others how to think/act/do, I would say in my professional opinion, you'd see a noticable benefit. You cannot make a significant dent in your illegal migration problem without cooperation from Mexico, because you lack the resources to match the inbound numbers. And tut-tutting the Government in Mexico and talking down to them won't make a lick of difference.

ES

 

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Princess_Tina 
Registered: May '01
14698_Padme
Date Posted: 3/16 2:33am Subject: RE: The Comprehensive Illegal Immigrant Thread - Date Edited: 3/16 2:53am (3 edits total) Edited By: Princess_Tina
Ender_Sai posted:

The reason I bring this up, and I already know Tina won't see the relevance so hi Tina! /wave, is that for us, illegal immigration to Australia is bad but it's not a problem for Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand et al. What is a problem we all share is illegal migration. The same system that can work to stem tides from Malaysia into Brunei Darusaalam or Indonesia can work in the GMS (Greater Mekong Subregion, from China through Cambodia, Laos, Thailand).


Actually, I do think it is relevant. I believe I've said many times that any unilateral approach isn't nearly as likely to achieve the intended objectives as a bilateral approach would be. However, I don't think a bilateral agreement is likely to occur anytime soon, because of political reasons.

Ender_Sai posted:

If the US could find the courage to a) show leadership and b) stop telling others how to think/act/do, I would say in my professional opinion, you'd see a noticable benefit. You cannot make a significant dent in your illegal migration problem without cooperation from Mexico, because you lack the resources to match the inbound numbers. And tut-tutting the Government in Mexico and talking down to them won't make a lick of difference.
ES


I agree with you in that the U.S. won't make a significant dent in the problem without cooperation from Mexico. There is some cooperation already, but it is very limited. More importantly, Mexican officials have made it abundantly clear in the last few years that Mexico isn't likely to fully cooperate with the U.S. unless there is some sort of amnesty in return. Of course, we all know how many Americans feel about that.

So I don't know how the U.S. can overcome that impasse - the other country tells you "we'll stop them on our side, if you'll just give legal status to those who already got in", when legalization is almost impossible to sell domestically.

And certainly in the last few years, the emphasis has been on an unilateral approach. Not only that, but there seems to be more animosity against the indocumentados themselves than there is against the coyotes (organized smugglers) or against the U.S. employers who continue disregarding immigration laws.

 
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