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Topic:
Oil Dependency, etc.
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Sauntaero
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
3/14/07 8:04pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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Corn is about the awesomest plant ever. It's a genetic monster.
Just thought you should know. 
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HawkNC
Title: FanForce RSA
Oceania
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
3/15/07 4:22am
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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"For all the environmental and economic troubles it causes, gasoline turns out to be a remarkably efficient automobile fuel. The energy required to pump crude out of the ground, refine it and transport it from oil well to gas tank is about 6 percent of the energy in the gasoline itself."
6%? They really better have some sources for that, because not even the oil companies make that assertion AFAIK.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
3/15/07 4:31am
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
- Date Edited:
3/15/07 4:34am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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That might have been true in the early days of oil, but not any longer. Oil extraction has followed a predictable pattern of taking the "easy" oil first, with a very high rate of energy returned on energy invested initially. As we move from land-based oil to offshore oil to oil sands and deep sea oil to, potentially, arctic oil and shale oil then go back and rework the old fields with tertiary recovery methods like CO2 miscible flooding, then the energy return may even go negative.
Some of these ideas may never succeed because there may never be a way to extract that oil with a net positive return.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 10:01am
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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This year we're going into the Memorial Day weekend and the summer driving season with record low inventory levels for gasoline.
What a lot of people don't know is that we're now nearly as dependent on foreign gasoline as we are on foreign oil. We're among the privileged few countries that doesn't refine enough oil to cover its own gas needs, so even though domestic refineries are operating at a high 91% of capacity, we're importing gas to cover a serious demand shortfall.
Refinery capacity is tight around the world, so to cover America's ass for the summer, there will likely be gas shortages elsewhere in the world. Developing/third world countries are most likely to suffer. Iran is going to have a tough time, as will India that uses private diesel electric generators to power much of its high tech boom.
There's a small chance that the U.S. itself will see scattered, localized gas shortages over the Memorial Day weekend, since our inventories are hovering at minimum operating levels despite refineries operating all out and importers scrambling to bring in the gas.
Gas prices are unlikely to peak before June. Many Americans will see $4/gallon gas before the supply situation eases up.
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SaberGiiett7
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 12:34pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
- Date Edited:
5/23/07 12:36pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
SaberGiiett7
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I got an idea, how about we stop bitching about the gas companies' profits? How about we stop moaning about their success and the fact they provide us we such a valuable resource?
How about we use our reason and recognize that price-gouging is a myth? That we exchange something of value for something of equal or greater value to us?
That government regulation would result in nothing less than bussinessmen, America's lifeblood, getting gouged? That we realize we live by a perverted standard of fairness?
The United States' outrageous comfort gets decreased in one area and like spoiled brats we can't hack it.
<[-]> Saber
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Jediflyer
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 12:37pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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I dislike the increasing gas prices as much as anyone, but from a policy perspective, these increases are needed to accelerate the development and adoption of new technology such as hybrids.
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 12:40pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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I honestly hope that gasoline reaches $5/gallon by the end of the summer.
I think that would be the straw that would break the elephants back and bring in the age of
Nuclear and solar power.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 1:09pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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I got an idea, how about we stop bitching about the gas companies' profits? How about we stop moaning about their success and the fact they provide us we such a valuable resource?
[T]hese increases are needed to accelerate the development and adoption of new technology such as hybrids.
I honestly hope that gasoline reaches $5/gallon by the end of the summer.
I think that would be the straw that would break the elephants back and bring in the age of Nuclear and solar power.
I agree with all that. One solution to the problem of $4 gas is $5 gas. The first thing the price of gas needs in the U.S. is a hefty tax on top of it with proceeds going to fund research into alternative energies/energy-efficient technology.
The easiest way to encourage conservation and alternatives is high prices.
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 2:54pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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sweet pea
I honestly hope that gasoline reaches $5/gallon by the end of the summer.
I predict 5$ gas will come next summer, not this one. But we're definately headed for 4$ this one.
It is a good thing in the larger scheme of things for the aforementioned reasons in the above posts. Plus, it reflects more of the true value of the gas on the market.
And the oil companies have no incentive whatsoever to expand refinery capacity. Why would they want to see more gas on the market and falling prices? They don't.
Here comes 5$/gallon.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 4:59pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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Domestic refiners definitely have incentive to expand capacity if they can. If they don't refine more, they will lose out to imports, since demand is rising, if more slowly than last year.
And in fact refiners have been investing in refining capacity in the last couple of years. They didn't do it when the bottom fell out of the market in the late 90s, but they're trying to do it now.
But in any case, you're right that $5 gas is on the way, maybe this summer if we have a hurricane hit on our production/refining capacity in the Gulf.
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Jansons_Funny_Twin
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 5:11pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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Well, one problem with increasing refinery output is that it is very, very difficult to build more refineries, as the environmental standards are very high, and it's tough to get by them.
I'm certainly not saying that we should reduce those standards, far from it. But I wish some people I hear on the radio would realize that when they say that more should be built. Easier said than done.
As much as it will hurt my wallet, I hope for higher gas prices as a way of forcing us to change how we do things.
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Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 5:19pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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Jansons_Funny_Twin posted:
As much as it will hurt my wallet, I hope for higher gas prices as a way of forcing us to change how we do things.
I have another reason for wanting higher gas prices. If the price of gas goes up, then the GSA reimbursement rate (currently at $0.485/mile) also goes up. Considering that about half of my mileage consists of driving to and from Atlantic City for work, and I have a very efficient car (routinely getting about 30 mpg in the city, I've gotten as much as 40 mpg on the highway), it means that I make a little more money each business trip.
Kimball Kinnison
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/23/07 7:15pm
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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I find it funny that at this point, California gas prices are dropping slowly.
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Jabbadabbado
Title: Senate Floor Moderator
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/24/07 4:47am
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
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It's logistics. California is being supplied heavily by imports right now. The midwest is being squeezed the most with supply, so we have the highest prices in the country right now. Different regions of the country to a certain extent have their own markets that are supplied differently.
Interesting thing about going nuclear. It's an idea that is apparently catching on. The price of uranium (yellowcake) has gone from $7/lb in 2001 to $120/lb today, with some projections that it will hit $250/lb by next year. One of the things many people don't take into account when they talk about alternative energy is the that when oil rises, the cost of energy as a whole gets dragged along, hence natural gas, coal, wind, solar, nuclear all see skyrocketing prices.
The real alternative energy source is not using it. Nothing else will be as useful to us over the next 20 years as energy efficiency and conservation.
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xboxmasta
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/24/07 6:13am
Subject:
RE: Oil Dependency, etc.
- Date Edited:
5/24/07 6:18am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
xboxmasta
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If we start running out of fossil fuel energy and are not prepared for it might still be good news in a way. It might actually make fixing the energy crisis easier. Because if we suffer major energy shortages then the demand for energy while it might not go down will not go up. No one will build new fossil fuel consuming machines or power plants if there is no energy to run them. The human population might continue to rise but if it does it won't be a population that will be expecting to use power plants and auto mobiles. Many humans will be forced to sustain themselves by a older form of economy and if they can't then the human population will decrease. Etheir way they wouldn't be increasing their consumption of energy fuels. If the energy loss is drastic, sudden and totally unprepared for there could be possibly massive chaos and problems of every description everywhere, which would lead to a decrease in the amount of human life and infrastucture which would also result in a decrease in fuel demand. If demand for fuel stops increasing or decreases then it would be easier for alternative energy to gradually replace fossil fuels. This energy crisis might not lead to total disaster but instead just a extreemly rough fuel transition period. Course the transistion could be hindered if everyone fights for the limited available alterative fuels instead of adjusting their lifstyles and economies until the new fuels are ready to be widely available.
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