| Author |
Topic:
Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
anidanami124
Registered:
Aug '02
|
Date Posted:
7/15/07 2:25pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
Divia posted:
A handful. 
By the goddess. Apprently you have not gone to as many "benifits" as I have for those who have cancer.
But whatever, as always believe what you will.
Yeah so Cuba must have a great health care system I mean Fidel Castro is such a great man and ca...wait no that's not right at all.
Look the turth there is that Cuba's health care system is great for those who are buddy buddy with Fidel Castro. Michael Moore never showed that because if he had it would ruin is whole movie. Not documentary but movie. I mean come on are you really going to believe that Cuba is the shining light of good health care for those who don't support Fidel Castro.
-----signature-----
Dark Lords of the JCC
My Heros of Music
Epica 1. Simone Simons 2. Mark Jansen 3. Yves Huts 4. Coen Janssen
5. Ad Sluijter 6. Jeroen Simons
1)ROTS2)AOTC 3)TESB 4)TPM 5)ANH 6)ROTJ
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Divia
Registered:
Jun '05
|
Date Posted:
7/15/07 2:30pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
- Date Edited:
7/15/07 2:31pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Divia
|
Hmm, lets see...when did I say Cuba's system was the better? Oh, OK...I didnt. Good, thats what I thought.
I never said cuba, france or England had all the answers and were perfect. I never said we were prefect. There are flaws with BOTH systems.
Thats what I said.
-----signature-----
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 1:00am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
And I never said our system was perfect, either. I just disagree with the premise that therefore a socialised health care system is better.
And like I said, I'd rather look at statistics. How many people are not getting prompt care covered by their existing insurance in the u.s. versus how many aren't getting prompt care in socialised health care structures?
I also know people that had cancer and were able to get it treated without needing benefits. So as both can happen, I'd like to see numbers to indicate how likely one outcome is versus the other.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Divia
Registered:
Jun '05
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 7:24am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
I also know people who had cancer who didnt have benifits, but I also know that there are those who had them.
People with health coverage in the US are sometimes covered and sometimes not. And that doesnt include the people who have no health care, like myself when I was in graduate school because I was no longer under my parents insurance. Thankfully nothing happened, and I daresay it happens quite often. Iknow it did with all my friends. Once you hit..21? 22? I dont remember you are no longer covered. Maybe your employer has it for ya, maybe they dont.
-----signature-----
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 7:31am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
I believe its around 24, if you stay a student taht whole time.
Similarly though, there are issues with getting care in socialised health care systems. Again, given taht there is not a perfect system, I'm not sure what point you're making other than its not a perfect system, which no one is arguing that it is.
The question is in what ways it could be improved.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Darth Geist
Registered:
Oct '99
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 8:01am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
Erk posted:
Thanks a lot. It brings up some good points and some not so good. One I for example would label a falsification is Heston going "I said to the Mayor this is our country, as Americans we're free to travel wherever we want in our broad land."
Which he did not say. See link.
What link?
-----signature-----
When George Lucas was in his early twenties, he was wrecking his health in the burning Tunisian desert, risking a new and fragile career on a movie no one believed in.
When I was in my early twenties, I was complaining on the Internet about George Lucas.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 8:16am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
- Date Edited:
7/16/07 8:31am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Lowbacca_1977
|
Darth Geist, this link I mentioned earlier
http://www.hardylaw.net/Truth_About_Bowling.html
Unrelated, of the anecdotal nature, on this same topic re health care being discussed one of the posters from Sweden mentioned that his grandmother had cancer. She was on a 6 month waitlist for surgery, at which point the cancer was then too spread for surgery and she died from it.
Purely speculative, though, if quicker treatment would have caught it in time.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Divia
Registered:
Jun '05
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 9:40am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
This is what I woudl like to know.
Why is there a waiting list? Not enough doctors? Too many people trying to get things done? Whats the issue.
Well, the one good thing about American Heath care...it gets rid of the undesirables. If you're too poor to pay, you die. Thats a good way to weed out the gene pool.
-----signature-----
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be Evil.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Erk
Registered:
Aug '01
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 12:23pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
"And what, exactly, is he documenting?
A documentary should have NO intentionally created falsehoods. Its like arguing a book is an original work because only a few pages were plagerised. "
IMO that would be an original work.
"And the suggestion that its otherwise containing no falsehoods.... "
He he, me going MM over you.
"The first one on that list is Moore creating a political ad and presenting it as real, when it is fabricated."
My bad. Fabrication.
Don't remember that scene so I can't say anything about it.
"Point 4, the Buell Elementary School in Michigan contained Moore saying: "No one knew why the little boy wanted to shoot the little girl", which is making a statement that was untrue because they had fought the day previous. So people did know, and thats not withholding information, thats saying something opposite of what the information says."
No fabrication. Interpretation. Fought the day before is a weak motive.
"Unrelated, of the anecdotal nature, on this same topic re health care being discussed one of the posters from Sweden mentioned that his grandmother had cancer. She was on a 6 month waitlist for surgery, at which point the cancer was then too spread for surgery and she died from it.
Purely speculative, though, if quicker treatment would have caught it in time."
Hey, no bull about Sweden. We don't even like Cuba! I went to the hospital some months ago with severe stomach ache and had just wait 8 hours to see the doc.
-----signature-----
"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place." Mick Travis, If.... Blast. They've removed my icon.  U S A ! U S A ! U S A !
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
7/16/07 7:18pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
Divia posted:
This is what I woudl like to know.
Why is there a waiting list? Not enough doctors? Too many people trying to get things done? Whats the issue.
Well, the one good thing about American Heath care...it gets rid of the undesirables. If you're too poor to pay, you die. Thats a good way to weed out the gene pool.
Well, I posted a link earlier I believe where a hospital in Canada was told to stop performing some surgeries for the rest of the year because they had gone over budget because there was only a certain number they were supposed to do each year. I believe that one was knee surgery.
And in the U.S., anyone can go to an emergency room and be treated even if they can't pay. Heck, thats been a part of the problem in the southwest.
Erk posted:
"Point 4, the Buell Elementary School in Michigan contained Moore saying: "No one knew why the little boy wanted to shoot the little girl", which is making a statement that was untrue because they had fought the day previous. So people did know, and thats not withholding information, thats saying something opposite of what the information says."
No fabrication. Interpretation. Fought the day before is a weak motive.
Thats not interpretation. He made the claim that there was no one that knew of any reason. However the presence of even a weak reason would mean that people did know why the little boy wanted to shoot the little girl. The manner in which he selectively mentions things creates false views of the reality, and that distortion has happened so much that I find it hard to believe that its accidental. Documentaries should have a high standard applied to them as far as being misleading.
Erk posted:
"Unrelated, of the anecdotal nature, on this same topic re health care being discussed one of the posters from Sweden mentioned that his grandmother had cancer. She was on a 6 month waitlist for surgery, at which point the cancer was then too spread for surgery and she died from it.
Purely speculative, though, if quicker treatment would have caught it in time."
Hey, no bull about Sweden. We don't even like Cuba! I went to the hospital some months ago with severe stomach ache and had just wait 8 hours to see the doc.
Only point I'm making is that every system has its bad stories about it.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Erk
Registered:
Aug '01
|
Date Posted:
7/17/07 2:17pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
"However the presence of even a weak reason would mean that people did know why the little boy wanted to shoot the little girl."
No. It would mean that people did know of one possible reason for the boy to shoot the girl.
I hate to mark words but that's the difference between falsification and not giving all facts.
"The manner in which he selectively mentions things creates false views of the reality, and that distortion has happened so much that I find it hard to believe that its accidental. Documentaries should have a high standard applied to them as far as being misleading. "
As I think it was clear that the movie was presented from MM subjective point of view I think the cases about withholding information are alrigth.
The cases of falsification are not.
Though they're not grave enough to rob the film of the documentary label.
Do you think that if the oscar jury had known they'd not have given the oscar to MM?
-----signature-----
"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place." Mick Travis, If.... Blast. They've removed my icon. U S A ! U S A ! U S A !
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
7/18/07 1:11am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
|
The Oscar jury is, I believe, a simple vote of the members of the academy. I think to an extent, its both political and popularity-based.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Erk
Registered:
Aug '01
|
Date Posted:
7/18/07 2:00am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
|
Ha ha, darn liberal entertainment people.
-----signature-----
"One man can change the world with a bullet in the right place." Mick Travis, If.... Blast. They've removed my icon. U S A ! U S A ! U S A !
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Faces of Silas
Registered:
Jul '99
|
Date Posted:
7/18/07 7:27pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
|
The question of "fact" vs. "fiction" is inconsequential. Moore is simply an exceptional comedienne.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
7/18/07 7:35pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
|
|
Michael Moore's a woman?
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
