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Topic:
Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Boskone_Kenobi
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
3/26/07 1:20pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Ender_Sai posted:
I'm sure you think they're just ace champ they're really, well, not and so even if 15% of US senators had kids old enough to fight you can damned well be sure that none of those kids would dare sign up for the military because I hear it might be dangerous and for those that do have kids in the military why I'd bet your bottom dollar that it would have influenced their vote
ES
Sorry Ender, but thats a bald-faced flying guess (or partisan wish) and you know it.
I want specific stats on EXACTLY how many senators have children of fighting age and specific % on how many of those are in the armed services. Your "I BET THEY ARENT!" is irelevant, and to be frank, extraordinarily lazy arguing, hoping your sparkling verbal wit can make up for mere partisan bluster. Your opinion is meaningless, I want facts and nothing but. Specific %'s and I want them right now. If you have them of course... (hate to think you were just spouting the party line) 
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
3/26/07 2:11pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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How's the foreigner spout a party line on this, exactly?
Though I'd love to find info on the children of the congressmen myself... I'd tried, and I can't find that data, eitehr from a single source or the individual sources of the congressmen.
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lexu
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
3/28/07 3:39am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Oh, Michael Moore... I remember watching BFC years ago. Afterwards, I reflected. Tried to condense it all into the key points, as one does. 'So,' I thought, '...US foreign policy... influenced kids... to shoot up their school?' 
This is my theory. Once MM was a determined activist. He fought for the little man against those evil, giant corporations that had too much power and influence. He looked at what was really wrong with this country and made it his life's work to spread the word. He was basically a good man, certainly with good intent. But, when it was clear he was becoming all too successful at his endeavors, the evil, giant corporations took notice. How to subdue this threat? they pondered. And as they do, because they are oh so sneaky those evil, giant corporations, they decided on a subtle plan, one that would once again leave the American public none-the-wiser. Through subsidiaries and private donations, they funded his next film, reserving for themselves content rights which they used to engineer MM's undoing. Make it political! Share your opinions with the world! And so he was tainted by the taste of his own left-wing political brilliance. Just as expected, his films were from then on received as "extremist" and "misleading" and "downright fictional." Thus, the good man was completely and utterly discredited, just as the evil, giant corporations wanted...
Or I may have just typed that all as it flew out of my head without any significant knowledge of MM's history, much less where his funding comes from, but you can choose to subscribe to this theory if you so wish. (Just as you can choose to believe most of MM's BS. See? I did have a point! Huzzah!)
On a more serious note, I think his films are hilarious on multiple levels, but the man makes a few legitimate points.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
3/28/07 4:24am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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I want specific stats on EXACTLY how many senators have children of fighting age and specific % on how many of those are in the armed services. Your "I BET THEY ARENT!" is irelevant, and to be frank, extraordinarily lazy arguing, hoping your sparkling verbal wit can make up for mere partisan bluster.
Hasn't it been stated in the media several times that only one member of congress had a child in military service at the time the Iraq war was declared?
Since that time, McCain's youngest son has entered the service. Also since that time other senators have come in with children that, I think, were already in the service. Jim Webb, I think, has a son currently serving.
I know of no others.
But anyway bud, why not look those numbers up yourself?
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
3/28/07 7:58am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Gonk, I'd mentioned this article a page back that refers to their being 7 Congressmen who had children serving in the military at the time we started in Iraq.
Conflict with Iraq: Some members of Congress have great personal interest in the war
Additionally, there is a burden of proof issue here, I think. Aside from that the numbers are hard to dig up, if one is going to claim that congressmembers are less likely to have children in the military than the general public, then one needs to provide evidence for that.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
3/30/07 8:12am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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I stand corrected. Was it just one senator, then? I seem to remember people saying something like there was only one until McCain's son entered the service.
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ROTSFan
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
3/30/07 10:09am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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I think Michael Moore has some good points to make, but is likely biased in the way he presents them. I've seen him interview servicemembers in uniform who do not believe in the war (Fahrenheit 911), although I'm sure he conveniently omitted any interviews from troops who were proud to be serving their country and commander in chief.
In Bowling For Columbine, he presents us with the issue of gun control, which is a huge and divisive factor in my family. I believe that guns should be kept out of reach of little children; we are well beyond the era where they need to go out and hunt for their dinners much less bring them into schools. However, when he tricked and emotionally ganged up on an ailing Charlton Heston at his own home, it made me feel kind of sorry for the guy.
Michael Moore has some valid arguments, the problem is that he always has to bludgeon his audience with them.
Not surprising that above and beyond Democratic candidates he is the most hated man in the red states of America. 
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
3/30/07 11:32am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Gonk posted:
I stand corrected. Was it just one senator, then? I seem to remember people saying something like there was only one until McCain's son entered the service.
It may be.... honestly, I could also be that people just didn't particularly care about the facts.
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HowardFilms
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/1/07 6:26pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Cheveyo posted:
Show of hands: Of those who so vehemtly despise Michael Moore that they begin to froth at the first mention of his name, how many wait on baited breath for the next profound utterances of "truth" by Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, or Bill O'Reilly?
The other two are nuts, but I find Hannity to be a pretty standup guy. He has good conservative values without having to hate everyone that disagrees with him. I think Colmes, while I disagree with him more often than not, acts as a very nice compliment to him. From opposite sides of the spectrum, I think they do a good job.
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Vezner
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
4/15/07 9:47am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Looks like Moore is at it again...
http://www.nypost.com/seven/04152007/news/worldnews/moores_sicko_stunt_worldnews_janon_fisher.htm
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
4/17/07 10:10am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
- Date Edited:
4/17/07 10:15am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Cryogenic
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Michael Moore is a fraud.
Those companies he rallies against and tries to blame for endemic violence and profiteering? He owns shares in some of them. He also has a luxurious million-dollar apartment which caters to his every need. Guns, Mr Moore? You'd probably want to be keeping yours; gotta keep your fridge secure. So much for representing the working man and denouncing the evils of capitalism. Lastly, his cinematic works of fiction -- they certainly can't be called "documentaries", and in all honesty, even "mockumentaries" is fundamentally incorrect -- are a complete distortion of reality; a very deliberate distortion of reality.
Educate yourself here:
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/11/3/150518.shtml
http://www.mooreexposed.com/bfc.html
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Lane_Winree
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
5/11/07 8:28pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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While people on the far right like Rush Limbaugh bug the living daylights out of me, people on the left like Michael Moore are equally deplorable.
I will give credit where credit is due, though: Moore is a brilliant, BRILLIANT, spin doctor. If I was a Democrat running for office and needed some smear campaigns, blatant distortions of the truth, and otherwise underhanded politics, I would beg Moore to work on my ad campaign.
I will admit that I havent seen his pre-BFC work, but since that point in time, his credibility as a documentary maker has plummetted. His films arent documentaries, they are simply spin-pieces geared towards further propaganda. Documentaries are the things you watch on Discovery channel when you feel like learning why Opilio crab fishing is considered the deadliest job on Earth.
Just my two heavily biased cents.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/11/07 10:30pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Lane_Winree posted:
I will give credit where credit is due, though: Moore is a brilliant, BRILLIANT, spin doctor. If I was a Democrat running for office and needed some smear campaigns, blatant distortions of the truth, and otherwise underhanded politics, I would beg Moore to work on my ad campaign.
No, you wouldn't want to do that. Moore has a history of backing the losing horse.
Thought Clinton was a joke of a candidate in 1992, backed Nader in 2000, Kerry in 2004... thought Canada wouldn't vote how it did last year....
I'd want him running stuff for my opponent, personally.
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Lane_Winree
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
5/11/07 11:47pm
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Eh, point.
He's a spin master when it comes to catering to the lowest-common-denominator.
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LordSilvertouch
Registered:
Apr '03
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Date Posted:
5/19/07 9:55am
Subject:
RE: Michael Moore. Fact or Fiction?
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Shame he never backed Bush 
Moore is a self-admitted fictionaliser of the truth. In Bowling for Columbine it was extreme but didn't pervert reality beyond plausibility. However, the scariest thing about Farenheit 9/11 is that some people think it's a serious film
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