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Topic:
Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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BobaFrank
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
8/22/07 9:02pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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Either you didn't read it or you don't care. Very interesting points that I think you guys are ingnoring. Buford Tannen huh? More like Wyatt Earp.
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Jabba-wocky
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/23/07 8:32am
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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You could always, you know, try explaining the points that you thought they missed.
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Fire_Ice_Death
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/23/07 11:56am
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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Or support his arguments with facts. Bring on the liberal McCarthys. I am interested in seeing them.
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The Changing Face of America: What can brown do for you?
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BobaFrank
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
8/23/07 10:20pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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I find it interesting that the Liberals were willing to use McCarthyism and the "New American Right" as a platform against Communism. The fact that the McCarthy debacle lasted as long as it did while a Democratic president was in office(Truman) is mind-bogling. At the time it seemed like a great idea, rid America of all the Communists and their supporters.
Today, we find the Liberals thinking for instance, Illegal Immigration is a great idea and make the Middle East a Democracy. President Bush supports it. He's about to be out of office in a year and the leading candidates of the Democratic Party are all for it. I truly fear for America if Hilary or Obama become President.
McCarthyism should never gone as far as it did in the 50s, and we had Dems in office. Now America is heading in the same direction, but it's not Communists we have to worry about. Pretty sure next years president won't be Republican. If so, will they let a country in war, hopefully post-Iraq War, repeat what happened in the 50s?
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"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." -Yoda TPM
"May the Force Be with You."
"One Nation Under GOD."
"I want to come with you to Alderaan and become a Jedi like my father."
"I am a Jedi. Like my father before me."
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Fire_Ice_Death
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/23/07 10:44pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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The executive branch does not control what congress does. Even if it does get a little crazy. So Truman had no control over what happened. However, one might argue he could have silently influenced congress into letting McCarthy rant and rave for political reasons.
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Rogue_Ten
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 12:05am
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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I'm not understanding what group the "liberal McCarthys" would be targeting. So far you've cited their tolerant attitudes as the downfall of America, whereas McCarthyism is, by definition, an ideology of intolerance. It's not even a coherent analogy.
As far as your statement on illegal immigration, nobody thinks its "a great idea". That you made that statement shows GROSS misunderstanding of the issue, and I would really, truly hope you would know better.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 12:20am
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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Didn't Ann Coulter make a similarly vapid, vacuous link between McCarthyism and liberalism in the US?
Why on earth anyone would want to associate themselves with that witch is beyond me. She ought be sucking a tailpipe, just to make the planet a little smarter in the end.
ES
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Rogue_Ten
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 1:17am
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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Probably not, Ender. Ann's a big fan of Uncle Joe. Visits his grave sites for photo shoots and everything. She wouldn't compliment the LIEberals by associating them with her idol.
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Jabba-wocky
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 4:18am
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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BobaFrank posted:
Today, we find the Liberals thinking for instance, Illegal Immigration is a great idea and make the Middle East a Democracy. President Bush supports it. He's about to be out of office in a year and the leading candidates of the Democratic Party are all for it. I truly fear for America if Hilary or Obama become President.
McCarthyism should never gone as far as it did in the 50s, and we had Dems in office. Now America is heading in the same direction, but it's not Communists we have to worry about. Pretty sure next years president won't be Republican. If so, will they let a country in war, hopefully post-Iraq War, repeat what happened in the 50s?
That's where you are trying to go with all this? That seems like an incredibly vague "people are going to make bad decisions" concern that you could've used virtually any historical incident (or none at all) to explain. After all, the possible similarities to McCarthyism end rather quickly, don't they? What affiliations would be persecuted, this time? Persecute anyone linked to Iranian-linked Shiite religious parties? There was a logical continuity between fighting communism-->persecuting communists. While unjust and stupid, it was at least predictable, and it's logic apparent. By contrast, what you've proposed is:
Encouraging democracy in the Middle East-->persecuting ???
&
Broader immigration reform than a "punishment only" regime-->persecuting ???
There are no obvious targets from either of these movements, even supposing they are as real as you claim.
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ays Darius the king: 8 of my family (there were) who were formerly kings; I am the ninth (9); long aforetime we are kings.
All Hail His Excellency, Barack Obama
Roma vincit
Tearing Up a Lane (TERRIN UP A LAAAANE!!!)
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BobaFrank
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 6:12pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
- Date Edited:
8/24/07 6:13pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
BobaFrank
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Ok, sorry to be vague.
First, I don't really know who Ann Coulter is other than some person whose is adamantly despised for her political stances.
Second, After reading this article it seems to suggest that McCarthyism in the beginning was supported by the democrats and liberals willing to give it a chance to root out communism in a post-WWII/Cold War era. Unfortunately Joseph McCarthy turned it into a modern day "witch-hunt."
Third, because I am an advocate of riding America of illegal immigrants and democritizing the Mid East, it seems to me that the democrats which I personally see as liberals are willing to support some aspects of immigration reform as well as establishing a peaceful middle east possibly through democritization. I'm for this, as long at it will make America safer, but not dehuminize or destroy innocent lives, like McCarthyism did in the 50s.
Finally, if the Democrats win the election next year will there be a rogue conservative or rupublican that follows Joseph McCarthy's legacy and would the Dems/Libs let it happen?
So, like I asked in the main thread title, was McCarthyism that bad? I think it may have been a very good concept had JM not been such a nutball.
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"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." -Yoda TPM
"May the Force Be with You."
"One Nation Under GOD."
"I want to come with you to Alderaan and become a Jedi like my father."
"I am a Jedi. Like my father before me."
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GenAntilles
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 6:37pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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BobaFrank posted:
Ok, sorry to be vague.
First, I don't really know who Ann Coulter is other than some person whose is adamantly despised for her political stances.
Second, After reading this article it seems to suggest that McCarthyism in the beginning was supported by the democrats and liberals willing to give it a chance to root out communism in a post-WWII/Cold War era. Unfortunately Joseph McCarthy turned it into a modern day "witch-hunt."
Third, because I am an advocate of riding America of illegal immigrants and democritizing the Mid East, it seems to me that the democrats which I personally see as liberals are willing to support some aspects of immigration reform as well as establishing a peaceful middle east possibly through democritization. I'm for this, as long at it will make America safer, but not dehuminize or destroy innocent lives, like McCarthyism did in the 50s.
Finally, if the Democrats win the election next year will there be a rogue conservative or rupublican that follows Joseph McCarthy's legacy and would the Dems/Libs let it happen?
So, like I asked in the main thread title, was McCarthyism that bad? I think it may have been a very good concept had JM not been such a nutball.
McCarthyism is wrong period. The American government has no right to investigate the beliefs of people. If someone thinks socialism works they have a right to say it. If someone wanted to say "Soviets rule!" they had a right to say it. That was the purpose of the First Ammendment. Only if they were harming the American populace would the government have a obligation to stop someone.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 7:24pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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Frank
She is despised not just for championing lowest common denominator politics, but for her methods and severe anti-intellectual bias.
E_S
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BobaFrank
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
8/24/07 8:00pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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That's fine. Still don't know her or care too.
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"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." -Yoda TPM
"May the Force Be with You."
"One Nation Under GOD."
"I want to come with you to Alderaan and become a Jedi like my father."
"I am a Jedi. Like my father before me."
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
8/26/07 8:48am
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
- Date Edited:
8/26/07 8:48am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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McCarthyism counts as a stain against our national reputation and character, sure, but it certainly doesn't stack up very well against the great political purges of the time. By the time McCarthyism got around to annoying everyone and destroying careers before fueled by its own stupidity it quickly burned out, Stalin has already purged just about everyone he could think of, including by then all the "Trotskyites" and old guard Bolsheviks, the military, the Jews, the doctors, the peasants, etc., and so on. And by purged of course we mean tortured, shot in the back of the head, starved or sent to slave labor camps in Siberia.
A much bigger stain on the national character is of course the Iraq war and the methodology of the war on terror which resembles much more closely some of the bleaker aspects of the Soviet Union than McCarthy's pathetic girl scout's attempt at a Stalinist style purge.
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GenAntilles
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
8/26/07 12:56pm
Subject:
RE: Was McCarthyism so bad?????
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Jabbadabbado posted:
McCarthyism counts as a stain against our national reputation and character, sure, but it certainly doesn't stack up very well against the great political purges of the time. By the time McCarthyism got around to annoying everyone and destroying careers before fueled by its own stupidity it quickly burned out, Stalin has already purged just about everyone he could think of, including by then all the "Trotskyites" and old guard Bolsheviks, the military, the Jews, the doctors, the peasants, etc., and so on. And by purged of course we mean tortured, shot in the back of the head, starved or sent to slave labor camps in Siberia.
A much bigger stain on the national character is of course the Iraq war and the methodology of the war on terror which resembles much more closely some of the bleaker aspects of the Soviet Union than McCarthy's pathetic girl scout's attempt at a Stalinist style purge.
I'd have to disagree with you on Iraq and the War on Terror. Lincolns handling of the Civil War was far worse than Bush's. Suspending Habeous Corpus, jailing opponents who spoke out against him. Letting Grant waste troops becuase he knew their would always be replacements. And let's not forget the Wilson administration. Under them you could be jailed for speaking out against the war. Rosevelts handling of World War 2 wasn't much better. Death sentences for nearly every Nazi sabateour, sending Japanese Americans into camps. Bush's measures have been light compared to what former war time presidents have done. The rest of your post was right on.
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