| Author |
Topic:
Polygamy
|
Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 4:02am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
This is where the personal commentary stops, people. Especially Espaldy and Septhaka. The next time I have to come in here I'm bringing the ban stick. Knock it off.
E_S
-----signature-----
In this truth he knew himself to be.
From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Vagrant
Registered:
Apr '02
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 4:34am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
Espaldapalabras posted:
Vagrant posted:
As a polyamorous atheist, I'd like to see more focus on why the act of loving more than one person at the time should be considered morally wrong, and less talk about Mormonism.
If you could get off your anti-Mormon warhorse to actually read posts, perhaps we could have an actual discussion about polygamy.
You may have mistaken me for someone else, Espaldapalabras. 
I only suggested that arguments against polygamy focus more on the actual issue of marrying more that one person. The majority of world's societies flirt with sin of polyrelationships.
Personally, I'm married to one person and in a relationship with another. Everything is out in the open and nobody is cheated. We discuss and agree upon the rules before making decisions. Its complicated but it works. The relationship of three has been going for almost three years now. No kids, because we know we don't have the financial support needed. One of us is still a student in a university. One has a low-income job.
There are people who condemn us, but can't really give a reason why our way of living is wrong.
-----signature-----
"Intelligent Design is not a scientific theory." -John Marburger, Science adviser for president Bush Join the Emperor's Hammer! http://www.ehtiecorps.org/join.asp
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Septhaka
Registered:
Nov '06
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 6:31am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
Kimball_Kinnison posted:
I know you have reported me to the mods, and I also know that your complaint has been reviewed by at least one of the administrators, and yet they do not seem to agree with your complaint about me. That strongly suggests that you should be the one reevaluating your behavior, not me.
Yes and they explicitly agreed with me your comments were baiting and indicated they would talk to you about it - hence why you know you were reported. As for addressing all of my points, you've yet to address my points about causality instead offering your strawman logical fallacy allegation. Address my last post if you're able. And as for the other points in other threads you've yet to address even with strawman arguments - you know what they are - one word "arbitrary".
-----signature-----
Leaving these boards effective 9/30/07
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 9:28am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
- Date Edited:
9/30/07 9:30am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Kimball_Kinnison
|
Septhaka posted:
As for addressing all of my points, you've yet to address my points about causality instead offering your strawman logical fallacy allegation. Address my last post if you're able. And as for the other points in other threads you've yet to address even with strawman arguments - you know what they are - one word "arbitrary".
That's because you haven't demonstrated that they are caused by polygamy. Of course, I'm not the only person to have pointed this out to you. Espaldapalabras, darth_paul, and Lowbacca have all pointed out the same thing.
But then, I seem to be the only person that you have this sort of vendetta against. It's almost as if you were the sock of someone I banned as a mod.
Kimball Kinnison
-----signature-----
You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 11:22am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
PrincessChattyCathy posted:
My husband was raised in a home where his mother had two husbands at the same time. One of the main reasons for doing this was to provide financial and emotional stability to the home. He often talks about how great it was to have the attention of three adults. Is this lifestyle for everyone? Absolutely not but for some perhaps it would provide for their needs.
Yes, being raised in a family with one mother and two fathers seemed pretty good to me. There is evidence to support that having one mother and one father is better than having just a single parent for a variety of reasons, not least of which is the financial and emotional security that having two parents can provide. I'd guess, for similiar reasons, three parents can be better than two.
-----signature-----
LemmingLord
Take a Leap of Faith and Follow Me
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Septhaka
Registered:
Nov '06
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 11:40am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
- Date Edited:
9/30/07 12:04pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Strilo
|
Kimball_Kinnison posted:
Septhaka posted:
As for addressing all of my points, you've yet to address my points about causality instead offering your strawman logical fallacy allegation. Address my last post if you're able. And as for the other points in other threads you've yet to address even with strawman arguments - you know what they are - one word "arbitrary".
That's because you haven't demonstrated that they are caused by polygamy. Of course, I'm not the only person to have pointed this out to you. Espaldapalabras, darth_paul, and Lowbacca have all pointed out the same thing.
So if four people agree then they must be right? That sort of mob mentality, while I understand it prevails on boards such as these, is not an effective way to determine the validity of people's claims. I can't really be much more clearer than in my prior post in showing the actual crimes I listed previously are a part of polygamy in the United States.
Strilo edit: The remainder of this post was a bit too personal. I am removing it for now until Ender and/or Mr44 can review this thread and take action if needed.
-----signature-----
Leaving these boards effective 9/30/07
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kimball_Kinnison
Registered:
Oct '01
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
Septhaka posted:
So if four people agree then they must be right? That sort of mob mentality, while I understand it prevails on boards such as these, is not an effective way to determine the validity of people's claims. I can't really be much more clearer than in my prior post in showing the actual crimes I listed previously are a part of polygamy in the United States.
You're right. You couldn't be clearer that you have no idea what you are talking about.
Septhaka posted:
Nice - trying to spin your own problems onto me? I created this screen name because I was unable to access the email associated with my former name on these boards and could not remember my password. And I am not banned under my alternate name. That screen name is still valid. But I'm glad to see Ender has chosen to share my private information with you. Moderators ethics are a board by board situation clearly.
Actually, he didn't. I contacted him earlier with my suspicions of who you are, and he said he'd get back to me. You just confirmed it for yourself. It's an old police investigative technique. You just fell for one of the oldest tricks in the book.
As for the rest of your post, anyone can go back and see the record in the Mormonism thread to see that you are completely wrong about it. But then, you and I have both already been told to drop it.
Kimball Kinnison
-----signature-----
You deserve the wrath of Kimball...- OWM
Why, Kimball... I didn't know you had it in you.- KW
I think that Kimball just made a joke, and a funny joke at that.- Raven
Stupidity got us into this mess, why can't it get us out?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Strilo
Title: PT Manager
aka Dr. John Dorian
Registered:
Aug '01
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 12:07pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
|
Yeah guys, let's drop this. If anything further needs to take place, let Ender and/or Mr44 deal with it.
-----signature-----
#1 on iTunes Most Played: R.E.M. "Imitation of Life"
#1 on iTunes Film Scores: Harry Potter "A Window to the Past"
* * * * * *
"You wonder if your chance will ever come
Or if you're stuck in square one."
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
darth_paul
Registered:
Apr '00
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 12:16pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
- Date Edited:
9/30/07 12:17pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
darth_paul
|
Septhaka posted:
Kimball_Kinnison posted:
That's because you haven't demonstrated that they are caused by polygamy. Of course, I'm not the only person to have pointed this out to you. Espaldapalabras, darth_paul, and Lowbacca have all pointed out the same thing.
So if four people agree then they must be right? That sort of mob mentality, while I understand it prevails on boards such as these, is not an effective way to determine the validity of people's claims. I can't really be much more clearer than in my prior post in showing the actual crimes I listed previously are a part of polygamy in the United States.
It's not that multiple people agree on the problematicness or non-problematicness of polygamy; rather, it's that four people have all pointed out the underlying problems in your claims, and you continue to to repeat your claims without acknowledging the validity of the objections we raise to them, let alone try to deal with them. No one is arguing that there have not been other criminal actions in situations connected with polygamous marriage. There have been, certainly. However, you continue to cite these same instances and use them as a blanket attack upon polygamy. You have not demonstrated that these practices are inextricably linked to polygamy, that polygamy necessary entails them; you have only shown that they occur together in some instances. You have not successfully shown polygamy to be the root cause of these problems; they may well be symptomatic of another underlying cause. You have not demonstrated that all groups or individuals practicing polygamy encounter these issues, or even that most of them do. (Indeed, it seems quite possible that polygamy primarily becomes public in the event of criminal activity, as in general, it would be kept hidden.) What you have said is "There are groups of people practicing X who also do Y, and Y is bad, therefore we should ban X." Following similar logic, we could argue for the banning of most things in society. In order for you to make a compelling case against polygamy, you need to make a case for a necessary causal link between polygamy and the other things you've talked about, and you haven't even attempted to do so; it's something you seem to take as a given. Kimball is quite right to challenge your argumentation on that score.
Edited for quote markup.
-Paul
-----signature-----
So this is how liberty dies... with thunderous applause.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 2:33pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
Septhaka posted:
So if four people agree then they must be right? That sort of mob mentality, while I understand it prevails on boards such as these, is not an effective way to determine the validity of people's claims. I can't really be much more clearer than in my prior post in showing the actual crimes I listed previously are a part of polygamy in the United States.
We don't have polygamy yet in the United States. It'd be like pointing out that alcohol leads to mafia-like situations as the Prohibition era, when its more that that was brought about alcohol not being legal.
Polygamy could well face a similar situation. I think darth_paul is also right in that only some cases of polygamy ever get public attention, again because its illegal.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 2:43pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
Thanks, Strilo.
E_S
-----signature-----
In this truth he knew himself to be.
From sinking sands he stepped into light's embrace.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 6:42pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
Lowbacca_1977 posted:
We don't have polygamy yet in the United States. It'd be like pointing out that alcohol leads to mafia-like situations as the Prohibition era, when its more that that was brought about alcohol not being legal.
Polygamy could well face a similar situation. I think darth_paul is also right in that only some cases of polygamy ever get public attention, again because its illegal.
Here here. If you make anything illegal, no matter its moral or ethical implications, you've turned a group of people into outlaws; which sometimes requires that they associate with outlaws of a worse sort...
One thing I'm not sure has been mentioned is that the true implications of marriage in general, and in the governments involvement in particular. An official marriage has certain legal implications; but not all marriages need to be official for them to be real.. I am in favor of removing the term marriage from federal laws; and hopefully state and local laws as well. Those protections granted for those officially married should be unbundled. A citizen has the right to own property; she therefore has the rigth to share that property communally with whomever she wishes. A citizen has the right to declare another as her legal proxy, and further has the right to declare multiple legal proxies, and therefore has the right to give one or more members of her community the right to legal (or medical) decisions while she is incapacitated.
That the government charges different taxes to people whether they call themselves married or not is proposperous.
But back to polygamy's moral implications: if three people can stay true to one another, it is a better thing than if two people can stay true to one another. We may debate over whether its possible for three people to stay true to one another.. Of that, I have seem only limited data. I have faith that there are people who can do this, just as I have faith that a parent can stay true to her spouse and her parents and her children all simultaneously.
-----signature-----
LemmingLord
Take a Leap of Faith and Follow Me
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
|
Date Posted:
9/30/07 11:04pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
|
If this was the only place I ran into some stupid assertions, perhaps I could keep my cool. Instead there are all sorts of "liberal" people perfectly willing to throw tolerance out the window so they can stick it to Mormons. So I guess I better take a breather.
-----signature-----
A vote is like a rifle: its usefulness depends upon the character of the user.
Theodore Roosevelt
We should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe.
Oliver Wendell Holmes Jr.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
yuna_kenobi
Registered:
Aug '06
|
Date Posted:
10/8/07 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
Espaldapalabras posted:
If this was the only place I ran into some stupid assertions, perhaps I could keep my cool. Instead there are all sorts of "liberal" people perfectly willing to throw tolerance out the window so they can stick it to Mormons. So I guess I better take a breather.
tolerance my butt...
i'm going into an off topic tangent (be forewarned)
but it is my understanding that in public schools are the centers of christian book burning, and yet we erect muslim foot-baths out of this "TOLERANCE" of which you speak, it is because of "TOLERANCE" that the Mormons were ousted from every city they erected, called evil and devil worshiping, and had anti-polygamy legislation leveled like an iron fist
and yet we must be nice to muslim radicals and rapists...
-----signature-----
Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori.
Vi veri veniversum vivus vici.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
|
Date Posted:
3/20 10:40pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
|
How come this interesting topic has not had a post in ages? 
-----signature-----
That Zayne is Shmi's ancestor theory for the win. 
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
