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Topic:
Polygamy
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
3/21 12:40am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Perhaps because I don't have a clue what the previous post was about. That made no sense whatsoever.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
3/21 12:44am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Espaldapalabras posted:
Perhaps because I don't have a clue what the previous post was about. That made no sense whatsoever.
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Emperor_Time
Registered:
Aug '07
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Date Posted:
3/21 12:20pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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I'm confuse by yuna_kenobi's post as well. 
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
3/21 5:41pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Lord_Vivec posted:
Espaldapalabras posted:
Perhaps because I don't have a clue what the previous post was about. That made no sense whatsoever.
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
3/22 6:13am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Its off topic, so no need to understand it. 
Polygamy is good.
There.. back on topic.
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Warsie
Registered:
Oct '05
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Date Posted:
3/27 5:41am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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LemmingLord posted:
Polygamy is good.
There.. back on topic.
that's all to it. Polygamy is like other marriages and such. All a social construct, just like other marriages which people would claim to be "right". So basically, leave them alone (something many have said)
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/7 11:05pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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What do you all think of the raid that went on in Texas?
FLDS members claim raid breaches constitutional rights
At this point we can't know for certain because not all the information is public, but I think this was a huge overreaction to a real problem. Like it or not, we still have rights and the rule of law in this country, and if they rounded up all 400 people based on a single allegation towards a man known not to be in the state, I think this whole thing is going to backfire big time.
The thing that worries me is that because they are weird and obviously as a group probably do have serious crimes going on among them, it is now okay just to round them all up. Frankly I think we give radical mosques more freedom. When we suspect a group of Muslims is harboring terrorists or sympathises with them, I don't think we have gone in and rounded them up like this. You go in and take out the suspects you have evidence against.
I also have a problem with them entering their temple for no apparent reason. Don't misunderstand me, I don't consider their temple sacred, in fact it is something of an abomination to me, but I do understand very well how they feel about it and I don't want law enforcement bringing down the doors of my temples with such flimsy legal reasoning.
Do I like the fact they are grown men marrying their 14 year old relatives? Absolutely not, but frankly I think it is worse for the offspring for a 14 year old to have sex with another 14 year old. At least when they are having sex with grown men somebody is there to support the baby. And I think there is a big difference between marrying a 14 or 16 year old and a true pedophile.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/7 11:09pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Do I like the fact they are grown men marrying their 14 year old relatives? Absolutely not, but frankly I think it is worse for the offspring for a 14 year old to have sex with another 14 year old. At least when they are having sex with grown men somebody is there to support the baby. And I think there is a big difference between marrying a 14 or 16 year old and a true pedophile.
I find that view incredibly repugnant, and almost hideous. These men prey on young women who rarely know any kind of world or life outside their compounds, and are at the mercy of men two, three or even four times their age.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/8 12:07am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Espaldapalabras posted:
Do I like the fact they are grown men marrying their 14 year old relatives? Absolutely not, but frankly I think it is worse for the offspring for a 14 year old to have sex with another 14 year old. At least when they are having sex with grown men somebody is there to support the baby.
Yeah, but then the baby is going to be raised in this same situation where they're married off in an arranged marriage before their age as well. Soo... I'm gonna go with thats not exactly 'better', thats just a different kind of 'bad'.
Overall, my view is that I think Esp hits on a very good point that based on one crime like that, they rounded up everyone by force and that is, I think, very questionable. For exactly the reason Esp pointed out, which is just one report of abuse shouldn't lead to everyone being rounded up like that. Thats entirely off base.
That said, I think that searching the temple to find her should be just as fair game as trying to search a mosque for a terrorist or go in to a church to get an illegal immigrant trying to claim sanctuary. The claim seems not to really be flimsy, and I don't think that religious buildings should get a pass from the law.
I'd agree this sort of stuff is disgusting to have it be 14 year olds forced into marriage. I support the right for adults to agree to polygamy, and for that matter, I also support the right for adults to agree to incest as well. However, this is simply, imo, child abuse to force 14 year olds into marriage like this. At least in sex between two 14 year olds I can see neither grasping the full scope of what they're doing but when there's an adult as one of the parties that seems to be just preditation.
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/8 4:51am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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This particular case shows that polygamy isn't the problem; but rather brainwashing and pressurring folks to get married when they aren't ready. Unfortunately, polygamy is against the law, but brainswashing is not... That's what disgusts me.
This is an acute taste of what goes on in our culture everyday. This is worse because it is institutional. There is a pressure put on all people to be married and to have babies. To sit at the adult table, much of society demands that you get married. It is disgraceful the pressure we put on people and it is no wonder that divorces occur with such frequency.
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king_alvarez
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
4/8 10:21am
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Espaldapalabras posted:
At this point we can't know for certain because not all the information is public, but I think this was a huge overreaction to a real problem. Like it or not, we still have rights and the rule of law in this country, and if they rounded up all 400 people based on a single allegation towards a man known not to be in the state, I think this whole thing is going to backfire big time.
The thing that worries me is that because they are weird and obviously as a group probably do have serious crimes going on among them, it is now okay just to round them all up.
I think you have the intentions all wrong. They did not round up the 400 children because the children may have committed a crime, rather "state authorities had taken legal custody of 401 children, saying they had been harmed or were in imminent danger of harm." I'm still forming my own personal views on the matter, but I'm inclined to believe that the children were in fact in an unsafe environment.
posted:
Do I like the fact they are grown men marrying their 14 year old relatives? Absolutely not, but frankly I think it is worse for the offspring for a 14 year old to have sex with another 14 year old. At least when they are having sex with grown men somebody is there to support the baby. And I think there is a big difference between marrying a 14 or 16 year old and a true pedophile.
Regardless of how severe you feel the offence is, the fact that it is illegal is enough in my mind to have to, at the very least, look into the situation.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
4/8 10:08pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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KnightWriter posted:
Do I like the fact they are grown men marrying their 14 year old relatives? Absolutely not, but frankly I think it is worse for the offspring for a 14 year old to have sex with another 14 year old. At least when they are having sex with grown men somebody is there to support the baby.
I find that view incredibly repugnant, and almost hideous.
QFT. Like, make-a-SAN-check-for-seeing-Cthulhu hideous.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/8 10:47pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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You guys are acting like I said it was a good thing. I said "better." Better as in "Mugabee is better than Hitler" better.
And I was also referring to the fact it was better for the baby, not better for the 14 year old girl.
I guess it could also just be viewed as a different kind of "bad."
Like I said, we don't have all the facts but it seems like law enforcement went a bit too far. I just wonder how people would react if they rounded up all the children in the worst ghettos where there was rampant drug, prostitution, and gang activity. I guess I would just like to know what kind of danger the younger girls and boys were in, and if the one phone call was the only evidence they had going in. So as long as they are following the rule of law and not treating these people any different than any other group, then I don't have a problem with what law enforcement did.
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We should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/8 11:41pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Espaldapalabras posted:
And I was also referring to the fact it was better for the baby, not better for the 14 year old girl.
It just means that there is a 50-50 shot to be abused as well. I'd think the odds might be better between two 14 year olds that the kid might be given up or something else that'll prevent the kid growing up in the same situation.
Espaldapalabras posted:
Like I said, we don't have all the facts but it seems like law enforcement went a bit too far. I just wonder how people would react if they rounded up all the children in the worst ghettos where there was rampant drug, prostitution, and gang activity. I guess I would just like to know what kind of danger the younger girls and boys were in, and if the one phone call was the only evidence they had going in. So as long as they are following the rule of law and not treating these people any different than any other group, then I don't have a problem with what law enforcement did.
The main reason that that argument doesn't hold up is because you compared apples to oranges. If its the Church running the misguided policy, then that effects the whole church. ghettos aren't the same organisation effecting every family.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/8 11:56pm
Subject:
RE: Polygamy
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Fair enough, but what if it was all known gang members or those affiliated with a gang?
The point I'm trying to get at is that we have a lot of problem communities that have high rates of abuse and crime going on, and while yes this particular group is worse than most, it seems like because they were all grouped together they might be being treated differently than other groups with similar problems who might not be such a cohesive unit. In this case the crimes seem to be occuring due to the hierarchy, but what do we do when young teen pregnancy and other abuses are the result of more systemic issues such as poverty and culture?
I suppose under the FLDS system it is more apparent that the 14 year old girls really have no choice but to be married off, but why do we not react the same way when some 14 year old girl is lured into early sexual activity by other adult influences in more mainstream society?
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We should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe.
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