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Topic:
Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
12/22/07 10:16am
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
- Date Edited:
12/22/07 10:18am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Vaderize03
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J-Rod posted:
C'mon Diz. These are the exceptions to the rule from all that I have seen. Remember that I grew up on welfare and come from the stock that creates teen parents. Mine, to be exact. My parents knew better. They simply didn't care. My little sis? Four "accidents". She also knew better.
Condom instructions are right in the pack. Doesn't matter though as everybody already knows how to use them.
Everybody also knows about Planned Parenthood. These aren't little known secrets. Flip on the tube. See the adds. Pick up a magazine. See the adds. Tune to a radio station. Hear the adds.
What makes you believe this? My expirience doesn't bare this out. Remember, we are talking about the majority of kids. Not the one that you saw on Montel last week.
Dude, seriously? Power issues and emotional baggage? That sounds a little drama queenish to me. I might say the same things about teacher/student relationships. (At least not the ones that produce children of their own) Or perhaps peer relationships keeping kids from asking a question that they feel stupid about.
So you speak for everyone, J-Rod? You're experiences are all that there are out there? I find this amusing, since you have accused others of doing the very same thing multiple times on the boards.
Putting that aside, simply knowing about the existence of something doesn't mean that one automatically can learn everything about it without help. Calling teenagers "lazy" may apply to some, and obviously you have had personal experience with this, but you are ignoring quite a few things here. In my medical practice, I have encountered a lot of teenagers who simply didn't know things that may be obvious to others, such as the fact that herpes, HPV, and even HIV can be spread through oral contact. Some teenagers don't even consider oral acts "sex". I've met others who believe that you can't get pregnant your first time, or that the withdrawal method is an effecive means of pregnancy and disease prevention.
As far as some kids not being able to go to their parents to talk about sex, well, the fact that a judicial bypass system exists for minors who wish to obtain an abortion, as well as the principle of emancipation, is in res ipsa loquitor on that particular subject.
More later, my son is waking up from his nap.
Peace,
V-03
ps thanks for the compliments diz
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Quixotic-Sith
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
12/22/07 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Just to piggy-back on V03's comments, I've worked with patients who were woefully uninformed about the basics of human anatomy. For instance, I worked with one girl (18), who was clearly sexually active but thought that she used her uterus to defecate. I get a lot of freshmen in my classes, and they know very little about human anatomy, physiology, and epidemiology.
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ROTSFan
Registered:
Jul '06
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Date Posted:
12/22/07 6:35pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Quixotic-Sith posted:
Just to piggy-back on V03's comments, I've worked with patients who were woefully uninformed about the basics of human anatomy. For instance, I worked with one girl (18), who was clearly sexually active but thought that she used her uterus to defecate. I get a lot of freshmen in my classes, and they know very little about human anatomy, physiology, and epidemiology.
It's hard to imagine a time when we didn't know what our organs did, isn't it? 
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/2 3:05pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Quixotic-Sith posted:
Just to piggy-back on V03's comments, I've worked with patients who were woefully uninformed about the basics of human anatomy. For instance, I worked with one girl (18), who was clearly sexually active but thought that she used her uterus to defecate. I get a lot of freshmen in my classes, and they know very little about human anatomy, physiology, and epidemiology.
Hold on now, I'm not saying thta there aren't any kids who don't know where babies come from. What I'm saying is that most kids do know. Disease and unplanned pregnacy come from a lack of self control more than a lack of knowledge.
This brings the question that I've been asking: For the very few who don't know where babies come from, is it worth it to put everyone through a sex-ed class that contains no morals? Particulaly when Quix posted studies that show the most effective sex-ed contains both information and morals.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/2 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Yes, it is worth it, and your morals aren't necessarily wise ones to use, nor ones that everyone agrees on.
Medical facts, however, are something else and should be taught to everyone in school.
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"The Obama Car will be fueled by FISA amendments and emit civil liberties for exhaust." A-B
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/2 3:59pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
- Date Edited:
1/2 4:00pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
J-Rod
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KnightWriter posted:
Yes, it is worth it, and your morals aren't necessarily wise ones to use, nor ones that everyone agrees on.
Medical facts, however, are something else and should be taught to everyone in school.
I thought that the reason you wanted sex-ed taught was to reduce unwanted pregnacy and std's.
Is that true?
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
1/2 5:43pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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That is correct.
And on that level, morals should be left out of it. What needs to be taught are facts and data, not moral judgements.
Leave that to the parents. Simply discussing sex and the risks thereof in a technical sense does not amount to the presence or absence of any moral judgement.
Peace,
V-03
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"Bring your pretty face to my axe....."
B-O-H-I-C-A !! (that was funny DM!)
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/2 5:54pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Vaderize03 posted:
That is correct.
And on that level, morals should be left out of it. What needs to be taught are facts and data, not moral judgements.
Leave that to the parents. Simply discussing sex and the risks thereof in a technical sense does not amount to the presence or absence of any moral judgement.
Peace,
V-03
So...you say that we should leave it up to the public schools to teach our kids about sex. You say that it needs to be this way because we need to protect our children. Yet you don't want to teach this subject in the manner that has been shown to protect them the best.
Something doesn't make sence.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/2 5:57pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Something doesn't make sence.
Only to you.
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"The Obama Car will be fueled by FISA amendments and emit civil liberties for exhaust." A-B
"Discrimination doesn't violate anyone's rights, but prohibiting discrimination does."--KK
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/2 6:00pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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KnightWriter posted:
Something doesn't make sence.
Only to you.
I doubt it. It's pretty simple to see the disconnect with the logic of teaching sex-ed for the purpose of "keeping our children safe" yet not wishing it to be taught in the manner that is shown to be the most successful at keeping our kids safe.
Unless you are blindingly stupid.
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LostOnHoth
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
1/2 6:02pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
- Date Edited:
1/2 6:04pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LostOnHoth
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Sex education to me should be like fire arms instructions - that is, if you are going to use a fire arm then it is essential that you know how the fire arm works, how to use the fire arm safely and how not kill yourself and others.
It's the same with sex. If you are going to have sex, then do A,B & C to ensure safe sex. However, whether you have sex or not, with whom, in what location, and with what background music is entirely a personal choice and will depend upon your own morality and ethics.
Why confuse the two issues?
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/2 6:03pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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LostOnHoth posted:
Sex education to me should be like fire arms instructions - that is, if you are going to use a fire arm then it is essential that you know how the fire arm works, how to use the fire arm safely and how not kill yourself and others.
Should that instruction include a discourse on when to use the fire arm or whether to use the weapon at all? No.
It's the same with sex. If you are going to have sex, then do A,B & C to ensure safe sex. However, whether you have sex or not, with whom, in what location, and with what background music is entirely a personal choice and will depend upon your own morailty and ethics.
Why confuse the two issues?
Then why teach sex at all if not to keep your children safe Hoth?
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LostOnHoth
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
1/2 6:08pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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Exactly - to keep them safe if they decide to have sex. Hopefully, they will make the decision whether to have sex or not and with whom on the basis of principles not necessarily taught in a classroom as part of an approved curriculum.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
1/2 6:10pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
- Date Edited:
1/2 6:10pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
KnightWriter
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J-Rod, you see sex by anyone under the age of 18 as a poor choice. I do not, and that's where a big difference is. It ca be a poor choice, but the more informed and educated young people are, the more likely they are to make safe decisions, and those decisions may include not having sex at all.
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"The Obama Car will be fueled by FISA amendments and emit civil liberties for exhaust." A-B
"Discrimination doesn't violate anyone's rights, but prohibiting discrimination does."--KK
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LostOnHoth
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
1/2 6:16pm
Subject:
RE: Time to grow up - an end to the folly of abstinence only sex ed?
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The probem J-Rod is that sex is a multi billion dollar global industry as anyone who uses the internet frequently can attest to. You know one of the biggest problems I see with internet porn - apart from the fact that you have to pay for it, is that a lot of porn is now being dressed up as reality. You see these contrived scenes where 'strangers' meet and have sex. Of course, there is little or no evidence of a condom being used (please don't ask me PPOR).
This sends the wrong message to youngsters who don't get the contrivance.
The message must be to use contraception and how to use it - not whether to have sex and with whom and where.
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