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Topic:
How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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DARTH_CONFEDERATE
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 8:30am
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:
DARTH_CONFEDERATE posted:
I'd say equal representation for all, one vote per state. Whoever wins the most state wins. With that, maybe we wouldn't have so many states being ignored because the candidates couldn't win by just getting a few of the most popular like California, Texas and New York, but Arkansas and Wyoming would get an equal chance to decide.
That's what the Senate is for. Except every state gets two votes instead of just one.
That was for electing the president. Instead of the electoral college we have now.
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Rogue_Follower
Title: Manager: Literature
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 8:56am
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
- Date Edited:
9/29/07 8:57am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Rogue_Follower
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Uh, you do understand that the reason states do not have equal voting power for president is that they do not have equal populations? The president isn't elected by the states, he's elected by the voters.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 9:24am
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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DARTH_CONFEDERATE posted:
Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:
DARTH_CONFEDERATE posted:
I'd say equal representation for all, one vote per state. Whoever wins the most state wins. With that, maybe we wouldn't have so many states being ignored because the candidates couldn't win by just getting a few of the most popular like California, Texas and New York, but Arkansas and Wyoming would get an equal chance to decide.
That's what the Senate is for. Except every state gets two votes instead of just one.
That was for electing the president. Instead of the electoral college we have now.
How is that fair? States my be represented equally, but then the people wouldn't be represented equally.
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darth_paul
Registered:
Apr '00
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 9:51am
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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I'd like to chime in with another negative opinion toward compulsory voting. In fact, I don't believe in all the begging people to go vote that happens now. Someone who is informed, motivated, and has a clear opinion on how things should run is probably going to vote anyway -- unless he's just so disgusted with the system that, even if forced, he'd cast a no-vote. In general, I'd doubt that people who don't vote are, in general, particularly well informed or clear in their thinking and reasoning. People who do not know what's going on should not vote. And I really doubt that people who aren't interested enough to turn out and exercise their right to vote are going to go to particularly great lengths to inform themselves if forced to vote.
E_S does rightly point out the potential of compulsory voting to reduce the voting power of minority interests. I just don't think, so long as political apathy and ignorance is so strong, it's particularly likely to replace it with anything more valuable. The tyranny of the television camera?
Overall, if anything, I'd prefer being more restrictive about voting. There are a number of reasons, both practical and philosophical, why this wouldn't really work, so don't think I'm actually proposing it as a reform to the system, but ideally, I think everyone who wanted to vote at all would have to pass an examination about American government, and to vote in a specific race, you would need to answer a few brief questions to reveal that you understand the candidates' positions. If this could be done in a fair and evenhanded manner -- which, of course, it couldn't -- it would allow everyone, no matter his opinion, to vote, but not those who simply had no idea what was going on.
Uninformed voters degrade the system; their votes are without value, and can bring about great harm. On point of principle, if I have not taken my time to inform myself about at least the basics of all the candidates in a given race, I will not vote in that race. That seems to me kind of a baseline of responsible voting, and if I thought there were a way to enforce it, I'd advocate it.
I wonder whether there might be merit in not printing party affiliations on ballots. The party system could still be there, both for primary elections and campaigning purposes, but that would mean that a person who wanted to vote in any way other than strictly at random would at least have had to take his time to familiarize himself with the candidates' parties and less easy just to go down the list mindlessly ticking off members of a particular party without knowing anything about them.
Similarly -- and this one could be done immediately, and it's something I can see little real counterargument for -- automatic straight-ticket voting should be eliminated immediately. If you want to vote on strictly partisan grounds, you should at the very least have to go down through and indicate name by name that you actually do intend to vote for each of the individuals in question. I simply cannot see an argument in favor of allowing you to indicate in a single box that you vote a straight ticket and be done with it.
-Paul
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 11:39am
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted:
Except the founders knew better than to think the system was perfect or wouldn't have to adapt. That's why it's a living document. And there was no way in 1783 that they could have realized how interwoven and connected our states would become. It took Lewis and Clark over a year to get from Saint Louis to the Pacific Coast. I could make the trip in less than 48 hours if I drove nonstop, or less than five by plane.
Compared to the British Isles, the original thirteen colonies already represented a HUGE amount of land to govern. Of course the idea of breaking the country up into smaller sovereign states made sense, AT THAT TIME. But distances that represented a week-long round-trip back then are considered commutes these days, many of them across state lines. Do I even need to get into the differences in communication abilities?
*sigh
that doesn't change the fact that the Constitution is still, the highest law of the land. If we want to change things we need to change the rules, not just ignore them entirely.
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Septhaka
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 12:10pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Lets begin by throwing these legislators in jail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6X-xtVask
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 2:19pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Septhaka posted:
Lets begin by throwing these legislators in jail.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eG6X-xtVask
agreed
This is actually kinda funny after a while...and when its not in your state.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 10:01pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Just back to compulsory voting, because I think it would simply clear up so much of the US' woes - can you imagine a country where candidates have to peddle to the people who swing an election, i.e. the moderate middle class? It would be the closest thing to progress I could imagine - real solutions for real issues.
ES
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Septhaka
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 10:11pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Ender_Sai posted:
Just back to compulsory voting, because I think it would simply clear up so much of the US' woes - can you imagine a country where candidates have to peddle to the people who swing an election, i.e. the moderate middle class? It would be the closest thing to progress I could imagine - real solutions for real issues.
ES
I absolutely agree this sentiment. Compulsory voting - vote or pay a fine. Everyone has to get their car inspected but yet they don't have to vote? Where are our priorities?
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/29/07 11:50pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Restriction of the franchise to those with a demonstrable and quantifiable ability to properly participate in the process so that mindless votes cannot be roused en masse by special interests.
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Darth_Guy
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
9/30/07 2:42pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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...how would that be achieved? Literacy tests, perhaps?
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Rogue_Ten
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
9/30/07 5:54pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title:
Emperor
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Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
9/30/07 6:07pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Darth_Guy posted:
...how would that be achieved? Literacy tests, perhaps?
First, we'd set up a socioeconomic restriction since the best education is exhibited by those who are the best off. Then when we only have the top, say, 5% of the population to look at such tests are far more easily administered.
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Roma Æterna|SPQR Imperium Sine Fine "Moribus antiquis res stat Romana virisque" -Ennius, Annales "Tu regere imperio populos, Romanæ, memento;hæ tibi erunt artes; pascisque imponere morem, parcere subjectis et debellare superbos" -Virgil, Aeneid
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
9/30/07 6:09pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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I figure, if they don't care enough to vote, then they probably don't know enough to vote.
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Rogue_Ten
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
9/30/07 6:15pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
- Date Edited:
9/30/07 6:22pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Rogue_Ten
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Jello: Soo.... Basically, we leave the running of the country to rich white people? Isn't that effectively what we have now? 
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