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Topic:
How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title: EUC/JCC mod touring the Empire
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 3:08pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Rogue_Ten posted:
Nice dodge, GAJ, but the Census Bureau informs us that 88.9% of the "top 5%" of the population is white. Seems like a controlling stake to me. 
Accident of circumstance.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 3:19pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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dizfactor posted:
That would be a change I would be willing to go to war to prevent. I would literally kill you with a gun on a field of battle somewhere if that would help prevent that from happening.
I feel pretty much exactly the opposite. The states are over-represented right now, and the federal government should be much, much more responsive to population than a consensus of states.
Proving once and for all that we really aren't any more civilized than Iraq.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 3:44pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Mr44 posted:
That would be a change I would be willing to go to war to prevent. I would literally kill you with a gun on a field of battle somewhere if that would help prevent that from happening.
So, you're basically undecided on the issue, Diz?
I might be OK with that if the powers of the federal government were drastically curtailed, to the point where it held substantially less power over the individual states than Brussels has over EU member nations, and strong Constitutional safeguards to keep it from gaining more power. I'm talking about the point where we would no longer have a standing national military and where each state would have its own foreign policy. Since that is unlikely to happen, giving each state equal weight in the US will only happen over my cold, dead body.
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 3:47pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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GrandAdmiralJello posted:
Rogue_Ten posted:
Nice dodge, GAJ, but the Census Bureau informs us that 88.9% of the "top 5%" of the population is white. Seems like a controlling stake to me.
Accident of circumstance.
Well, let us find this "Circumstance" and burn him at the stake!
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Lord Sithis, Dark Lord of Entropy  Senator of the Disciples of Lady Lumiya and Lord Shadowspawn Avatar: Of Fire and Lightning: http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_fan_fiction/b10808/28930140/p1/?5 Barack Obama '08 
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anidanami124
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 4:53pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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compulsory voting for every citizen
Worst idea ever.  A good number of people in the US don't even know what they are voting on half the time and or don't even keep up with what's going on and you want to force people to vote. When I vote I vote for the things I now about and on people I now about.
But I don't want people voting who don't have a clue as to what they are voting about. That's why it should be left up to the people if they want to vote on something or not.
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Dark Lords of the JCC
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Rogue_Ten
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 4:53pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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I assure you, Jello, it was no accident.
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anidanami124
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 4:59pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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I absolutely agree this sentiment. Compulsory voting - vote or pay a fine. Everyone has to get their car inspected but yet they don't have to vote? Where are our priorities?
If you don't know what you are voting about then you should not be force into it. I made that mistake and I will never do it again. Unless Im 100% sure on the issues I'm voting on I will not vote. Unless I'm sure 100% on the person running and what they stand for I will not vote. I will vote for the Gov of my home state but I will not vote for some off the wall judges I have never heard about and don't know enough about. And I don't wnat to be forced into becuase of a fine.
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Dark Lords of the JCC
My Heros of Music
Epica 1. Simone Simons 2. Mark Jansen 3. Yves Huts 4. Coen Janssen
5. Ad Sluijter 6. Jeroen Simons
1)ROTS2)AOTC 3)TESB 4)TPM 5)ANH 6)ROTJ
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GrandAdmiralJello
Title: EUC/JCC mod touring the Empire
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
10/1/07 11:48pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
- Date Edited:
10/1/07 11:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandAdmiralJello
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Rogue_Ten posted:
I assure you, Jello, it was no accident.
Is there a conspiracy against non-whites?
The red herrings being employed are very amusing. I like how you've distorted it into a racial issue.
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Rogue_Ten
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
10/2/07 5:26am
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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The red herrings being employed are very amusing.
okay... wait for it...
I like how you've distorted it into a racial issue.
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
10/2/07 2:08pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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I have to agree with diz's position (surprise, surprise). An example of how destructive such a policy of equal representation regardless of population can be observed in Pennsylvania, in regards to gun laws.
The overwhelming majority of PA's population lives in and around Philadelphia and Pittsburg. In terms of counties, if one looks at an electoral map, one would see what appears to be an overwhelming republican majority, yet PA has become more and more a reliable "blue" state, electing Ed Rendell twice and sending democratic delegates to the Electoral College since Clinton. Why? Because of the population. Although there are more republican counties in the state, the highest concentrations of people by far are in and around the two major cities, even though they numerically represent far less counties.
Now, why is this a problem? Well, as I stated above, gun laws. Philadelphia has a terrible problem with gun-related homicide. Generally there is at least a killing a day in the city, oftentimes more. Our murder rate is horrifying. Yet, we cannot pass strict gun laws because of a state law preventing cities from any type of ban. Even after the amish school killings, the NRA was present the very next day at the state house in Harrisburg to make sure that the state legislature, with it's numerically superior majority of representatives from low-population, rural-hunting states, overruled any attempt to change the state's gun laws. I find that pretty upsetting, since gun owners in rural areas use their weapons to hunt, not off each other in record numbers like on North Broad Street in Philly. Yet, of course, the political bloc involved cannot be budged. Is this fair?
I cannot imagine how that would translate if one further nullified the voting power of the more liberal coastal states but putting them on an absolutely equal footing with much more sparsely populated rural states. It would probably end the US as we know it.
More later....
Peace,
V-03
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darth_paul
Registered:
Apr '00
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Date Posted:
10/2/07 2:17pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Rogue_Ten posted:
69.1% is white. And the census inevitably under-represents minorities... due to socioeconomics.
Not questioning that you probably have that number from somewhere, but source please? Because that's simply not what's in the tables of census data you were referring us to on the breakdown by income...
-Paul
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
10/2/07 2:38pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Vaderize03 posted:
I have to agree with diz's position (surprise, surprise). An example of how destructive such a policy of equal representation regardless of population can be observed in Pennsylvania, in regards to gun laws....
Ya'know you could discuss that issue in another thread, because your reasoning is not sound. 
Compulsory voting is a bad idea.
People believe all sorts of stupid made up things
"George Bush is Racist!"
"Obama is a muslim!"
two examples of the misinformed American public.
If a person chooses not to vote, then they most likely shouldn't be voting.
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Rogue_Ten
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
10/2/07 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
- Date Edited:
10/2/07 3:56pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Rogue_Ten
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darth_paul posted:
Not questioning that you probably have that number from somewhere, but source please? Because that's simply not what's in the tables of census data you were referring us to on the breakdown by income...
General demographic characteristics table.
The census is often schizophrenic about whether to identify "hispanic/latino" as an ethnicity or a race. For the chart I quoted before, hispanic/latino was lumped in with some other racial category. There is no box in the "race" part of the census for "hispanic/latino", so latinos are forced to choose white, black, asian, native american, or pacific islander. Later on, there's a place for persons of hispanic ethnicity to fill out. So they subtract the hispanic/latino whites from the total number of whites to find the "white only" population. In the basic demographic data, it is revealed that the "white" population is only 69.1%.
Also keep in mind that this is the last national census, from way back in 2000. The population trends point to a shrinking prevalence of whites, so the percentage is lower by now.
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SaberGiiett7
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
10/2/07 6:57pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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Nothing short of violent, bloody revolution will reform the U.S. government. In all seriousness.
The corruption is endemic to statist system we have embraced ever since FDR.
The government itself is unconstitutional in that it no longer simply exists to protect the rights of citizens.
It has no other purpose than that.
No one seems to consider this, though.
<[-]> Saber
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Lord_Vivec
Registered:
Apr '06
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Date Posted:
10/2/07 7:01pm
Subject:
RE: How should the U.S. government be reformed?
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SaberGiiett7 posted:
Nothing short of violent, bloody revolution will reform the U.S. government. In all seriousness.
The corruption is endemic to statist system we have embraced ever since FDR.
The government itself is unconstitutional in that it no longer simply exists to protect the rights of citizens.
It has no other purpose than that.
No one seems to consider this, though.
<[-]> Saber
That seems harsh. I'm sure there are more civilized ways of bringing about desired change.
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Lord Sithis, Dark Lord of Entropy Senator of the Disciples of Lady Lumiya and Lord Shadowspawn Avatar: Of Fire and Lightning: http://boards.theforce.net/non_star_wars_fan_fiction/b10808/28930140/p1/?5 Barack Obama '08
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