Jedi Council Forums - Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.

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Author	Topic: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
DarthMak Registered: Jan '01	Date Posted: 10/11/07 5:01pm Subject: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	School shootings and other violence has become way too common in this country in the last ten years. Media and the government are quick to put the blame on movies, music, video games, etc. However, the common trend in all of these cases is that the killer has been bullied and given a hard time by other classmates. As a victim of bullying when I was a child I can almost understand why these kids went insane like they did. When I was bullied, I was at the point of wanting to put my fists in action, but I didn't because of my fear of the consequences. So as a result, I just got bullied more. The fact is, in today's sue-happy society, fighting doesn't seem like an option anymore. You hear about kids going to jail or getting sued by the family because their child got beat up. Yes, violence isn't the answer, but the sad truth is you have to stand up for yourself at that age. How are these kids going to stand up for themselves if they can't even fight? So how could we solve the bullying problem? Is there even an answer? -----signature----- I work too hard for your bull, Chip. lol @ golden boy, Michael Phelps. ki ki ki ma ma ma
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dizfactor Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 10/11/07 5:22pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	DarthMak posted: So how could we solve the bullying problem? Is there even an answer? Yes. Completely overhaul the school system. It's outdated for a lot of reasons, and it promotes bullying. A lot of the literature suggests that bullying becomes more common in a highly-structured, hierarchical environment, especially where there are high levels of intervention from above. Increased punishments for bullying appear to be counterproductive, and actually reinforce the bullying paradigm. The teacher punishing the bully essentially becomes the next bigger bully up the chain, and reinforces the idea that the natural order of things is for those in positions of power to abuse the people below them. I have heard that there has been a lot of success in Japan with non-interventionist approaches to bullying. Basically, the victim gets beaten up by a bully, and runs crying to the teacher asking for the bully to be punished. The teacher refuses and insists that the student solves the problem him- or herself. Eventually, the bully keeps picking on people, and the victims band together and defend each other, and the bully becomes a social outcast until he reconciles with the group. This is both more empowering for the victims, and it allows the bully to learn an important lesson, without reinforcing the hierarchical power model which lies at the core of bullying. Overall, bullying is just one of the reasons we need to make our schools less hierarchical, less regimented, more student-directed, and more democratic. It's a symptom of a deeper need for sweeping, radical education reform A friend of mine is running a free school that works according to a better model, and another friend is founding a charter school inside San Diego Unified District which also shows a lot of promise. -----signature----- "Play is going to be for the 21st century what steam was to the 19th century." Julian Dibbell "You gotta love an elite killing force that you can fool by putting on a hat." Gryph
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EnforcerSG Registered: Sep '01	Date Posted: 10/11/07 6:39pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	Honestly fighting back was the answer for me. In one school I was picked on every day for months until one day when one brat would not stop poking and teasing me I asked the one kid to stop, told him to stop, and then one swift strike made him stop. A similar incident in another school where I had been picked on for years again ended it. Both times it ended the bullying for good at the school. Oddly enough I was not punished in either case. I realize that this next part may be hard for kids to take to heart, but if ones motive is to make them stop, then I can understand a fight occurring. If ones motive is revenge then thats a problem. As for a sue happy culture, make sure it all happens in front of a teacher. Given that they won't do anything anyway they can be the ones that get sued for negligence. -----signature----- The more you fight, the more the sacrifice for peace becomes a waste If you don't say what you mean, you can never mean what you say. God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is no. I don't know: I would tell you if I did!
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Lord_Vivec Registered: Apr '06	Date Posted: 10/11/07 6:44pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	As for a sue happy culture, make sure it all happens in front of a teacher. Given that they won't do anything anyway they can be the ones that get sued for negligence. The sad part is that the parents will sue anyone and anything in the room. -----signature----- "Those of us who don't believe in science are being attacked by forces we don't understand...like momentum, acceleration, and gravity." Gavin Newsom for CA Gov '10! Property of JEDI_TEEGIRLOO Currently the most attractive guy in the EUC
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Espaldapalabras Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/12/07 12:49am Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	Diz I just don't think that approach will work in most parts of US society. Japan has a much greater sense of community than we do, and the worst bullying I suffered through was in a state of near total anarchy. Not only did the teachers not care, but we had 16 year olds who had no problem beating up any of their fellow 7th graders. For a few months as a the naive new kid it was a daily thing, but it eventually got better when a new new kid moved in who was way weirder than I was, and what finally brought it to a stop was when I won a fight in full view of the whole student body, but nowhere in sight of any teachers. Those that suffer the most are usually the rejected of society, the gays, the religious minorities, and the mildly mentally retarded. With good supervision you can easily manage most of the problems, my mother taught at a private school where because of the strict supervision all the students were forced to treat each other respectfully. I am a strong believer in the application of force to create a just society, and nearly all the bullying I ever recieved was in those times where there was a clear neglect of supervision. The back of the playground, the school bus, the locker room and whenever the teacher left the room were the only times it ever happened. There will always be those children who are viewed as different by the rest of the students. The last thing the rejects want to do is associate with others who will only cement their position, and it is often better to let the wierdest ones get the most punishment because it draws attention away from yourself. Laiseez-faire policies don't work for grown-ups, and there is no reason to think they will work for kids. In fact the schoolyard shows clearly the problems of the current international system. States act as individuals and not for the common good because there is no hierarchy. If there was a clearly regimented line of authority, like within states, you wouldn't seee nearly as much chaos and violence in the system. Left alone states do not effectively look out for the weakest, it is often to their benefit to ignore violations against those that they have no interst in protecting. Cooperation might work well within the EU, but I would say most schools in the US are more like Africa. -----signature----- It is impossible to find common ground when you insist on yelling from my lawn.
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GrandAdmiralPelleaon Registered: Oct '00	Date Posted: 10/12/07 4:41am Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	If I remember correctly research pointed out that the violence in U.S. highschools actually dropped and has been dropping for the last 20 years or so, so saying school shootings are becoming too common is actually playing on popular perception and not so much factual data. -----signature----- Vita vinum est. Freedom is a road seldom traveled by the multitude. Wer A sagt, der muß nicht B sagen. Er kann auch erkennen, daß A falsch war.
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Jabbadabbado Title: Senate Floor Manager Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 10/12/07 1:55pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S. - Date Edited: 10/12/07 1:56pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Jabbadabbado
	I've experienced this second-hand at my son's school. At the curriculum night, we were told that the teachers had received special anti-bullying training, that this was a "theme" for the year, that they had implemented a program to allow for anonymous reporting of bullying problems. What they've managed to create I think is a kind of mini police state, sort of a Kids Nation version of "The Lives of Others" where everyone is encouraged to denounce everyone else and it's hard to tell what's allowed and what will be punished. Mild teasing or the expected schoolyard insults are not necessarily distinguished from long-term chronic bullying. My son's not a bullier or a likely target for bullies, but he does have a keen nose for bull****, and his tales of the school's ongoing anti-bullying saga are great dinner table entertainment. -----signature----- "As a Chicago sports fan you get used to disappointment."
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anidanami124 Registered: Aug '02	Date Posted: 10/12/07 2:23pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	I have heard that there has been a lot of success in Japan with non-interventionist approaches to bullying. Basically, the victim gets beaten up by a bully, and runs crying to the teacher asking for the bully to be punished. The teacher refuses and insists that the student solves the problem him- or herself. Eventually, the bully keeps picking on people, and the victims band together and defend each other, and the bully becomes a social outcast until he reconciles with the group. This is both more empowering for the victims, and it allows the bully to learn an important lesson, without reinforcing the hierarchical power model which lies at the core of bullying. In other words turn the schools into fight club. I mean Heck forget that fact that are schools are hardly teaching are kids things any more and kids are not punished by any one any more. I say give the teachers back the power they once had. You mouth of or get in a fight and you get hit by a stick in the back of your head. And then you did not want to go home and tell mom or dad either. But no those days are gone. -----signature----- Dark Lords of the JCC My Heros of Music Epica 1. Simone Simons 2. Mark Jansen 3. Yves Huts 4. Coen Janssen 5. Ad Sluijter 6. Jeroen Simons 1)ROTS 2)TESB 3)TPM 4)AOTC 5)ANH 6)ROTJ
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Eleventh_Guard Registered: Dec '05	Date Posted: 10/12/07 2:42pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	Bullying is a lot different between the sexes, too, although there's some crossover behavior. Boys tend to bully each other primarily with physical violence (and these are the victims that, if sufficiently unstable to begin with, end up doing the shootouts) and girls usually bully each other with psychological attacking (and these victims, while less likely to commit violent acts of vengeance, can end up with deep mental scars that persist to and well into adulthood). Victims of both have little recourse, though. Can't go to the teachers, as that will only make things worse, and there's little one can do about it on one's own. There's a book and I wish I could remember the author's name - I read it recently, and it had to do with how to handle bullies. The advice made a lot of sense (and basically boiled down to play along with it, unless there's imminent threat of serious physical injury) but it does little good 15 years after the fact. Lack of discipline in the schools is one part of the problem, but bullying has been around forever, and the fact is that kids are immature and will treat each other badly for stupid reasons, and this is part of life. Instead of stopping the bullies, except when they're endangering people's lives, there should be more emphasis on teaching kids how to deal with the bullying so that there's little payoff for the guilty party. -----signature----- A conversation on Dathomir: Welk: My daughter did that... I am blameless. I'm not even armed. Jacen: And you just let her do whatever she wants? Welk: You're new here, aren't you?
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Espaldapalabras Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 10/12/07 3:41pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	People who act surprised when kids go on shooting rampages just don't understand what kind of environment many of our schools are. I don't know what it feels like to be gay, but I do know what it is like to be treated like one in middle school. Now if I had been psychologically unstable, unsure of who I was, or did not have the supportive home environment I had, it would have been quite easy for someone in my situation to see everyone as one of your tormentors because there was no support network there, and thus you might end up feeling justified in harsh retaliation against everyone. There will always be students and countries that are smaller, and both guns and nuclear weapons make great equalizers. I don't feel like I am emotionally damaged, I ended up in a school system that didn't tolerate it nearly as much, and learned how to not be such a nerd. Only when people think thugs in Lousiana should get off for almost beating a kid to death do I even think about my time there. -----signature----- It is impossible to find common ground when you insist on yelling from my lawn.
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Lowbacca_1977 Title: Senate Moderator Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 10/13/07 6:17pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	Coming from the perspective of someone who some people half-expected to bomb my high school (ironically, the people that thought that was a possibility were the part of the group that constantly teased me), I'd say the school should really only be stepping in when you get into concrete acts... not just the "he said..." sorts of things. The moment it reaches violence, throw the book at them.
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Master_SweetPea Registered: Nov '02	Date Posted: 10/13/07 6:38pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	What is the Mafia if not a bunch of bullies? What are cops like James Kuehnlein if not bullies with a badge? There is no easy answer, but if you can beat a bully, then do it, violence won't solve the problem, just end it. As for the rest of us, we have to find a way to kick 'em while they're down. -----signature----- I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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chibiangi Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 10/13/07 10:10pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	Part of the problem comes from the teachers not intervening when they see it happening. I know when I was in school, kids would bully right in front of the teachers without any reprimand. It's tacit permission, IMO. I don't know what the solution should be other than making sure someone steps in when they see it happening. The example with Japan applies to early school children (prior to first grade) and also is part of a culture where an individual's role within a group is a vital part of gaining respect within the community (kids, parents, school, etc.) Being a bully is counterproductive in that setting. I do not think such an approach would work here because culturally, we are completely the opposite and such an approach would give bullies an "open season" on the other kids. -----signature----- Talk nerdy to me. mujaki na kao de boku ni hohoemu
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BobaFrank Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 10/13/07 10:14pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S. - Date Edited: 10/13/07 10:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: BobaFrank
	I can remember in highschool standing in the lunch line overhearing the wrestling coach talking to one of the star football idiots. They were talking about fighting and picking on smaller kids. The coach actually said, "I freaking love it when one kid just beats the crap out of another." That was in 1985!!! -----signature----- "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." -Yoda TPM "May the Force Be with You." "One Nation Under GOD." "I want to come with you to Alderaan and become a Jedi like my father." "I am a Jedi. Like my father before me."
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Lowbacca_1977 Title: Senate Moderator Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 10/13/07 11:40pm Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S.
	The only issue I ever had where I think the school didn't act properly was two instances, one where I was grabbed from behind and choked on the fields while running and the other when I took several punches. The former, they just wouldn't do anything, and the latter I was told that I needed to understand why the guy would've had a problem with me. They also were unwilling to do anything when I had crutches stolen from me and broken. (And I knew who did that, too) I don't expect them to fix everything, but there's a point at which they should be trying to establish some order.
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Mustafar_66 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 10/14/07 7:00am Subject: RE: Not enough emphasis is put on bullying in the U.S. - Date Edited: 10/14/07 7:03am (1 edits total) Edited By: Mustafar_66
	Bulies are intrinsically cowards who do it to feel good about themselves. A quick punch to the nose will sort out any problems with bullying. -----signature----- http://www.facebook.com/home.php?ref=logo#/JaseCurtis?ref=name http://www.flickr.com/photos/25722571@N08/ http://twitter.com/JaseCurtis http://jases-politics.blogspot.com/
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