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Topic:
Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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GrandAdmiralStrife
Title: FanForce CR
Austin, TX
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
11/8/07 6:24pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
11/8/07 6:30pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandAdmiralStrife
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So Bush, under pressure, makes a dictator-to-dictator direct call and tells him he needs to step down as army head because, "You can't be the president and the head of the military at the same time. He needs to take off the uniform."
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071107/ap_on_go_co/us_pakistan
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GrandAdmiralStrife
Title: FanForce CR
Austin, TX
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
11/8/07 9:01pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Breaking news: Bhutto has been placed under house arrest and hundreds (if not a thousand) of her supporters rounded up and jailed. For their 'own protection', of course.
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DarthKarde
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
11/9/07 7:54am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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GrandAdmiralStrife posted:
Breaking news: Bhutto has been placed under house arrest and hundreds (if not a thousand) of her supporters rounded up and jailed. For their 'own protection', of course.
A not unsurprising event. It was clear that if Bhutto moved towards total opposition to Musharraf that this would happen. This will obviously trigger further protests the size of which will be important to watch.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
11/9/07 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Will Bhutto be assasinated? It looks to me like her life is in grave danger. If the Pakistan goverment don't get her, then surely Al Quaida will?
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
11/10/07 12:33pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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I'm curious about the arrests of secularists vs. fundies in Pakistan right now. Is Musharraf targeting the secularists or is he going after fundies too?
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DarthKarde
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
11/10/07 3:15pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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G-FETT posted:
Will Bhutto be assasinated? It looks to me like her life is in grave danger. If the Pakistan goverment don't get her, then surely Al Quaida will?
It is quite possible but it would be very risky for the government to be involved as it would cause outrage.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
11/10/07 4:04pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
11/10/07 4:05pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
G-FETT
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Yeah, but on the other hand the government might get desperate enough to do it. I don't know, I just get the feeling this is all going to end very, very badly and Bhutto's assasination may be the trigger for some sort of Islamic revolution in Pakistan - Not that she's an Islamic militant, but, as a result of the general turmoil her death would cause, an Islamic regime may end up being the final result.
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The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
11/13/07 5:41pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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The US has dispatched John Negroponte to Islamabad to talk with Musharraf. Not sure how well this will work - remember, Mr Negroponte is responsible for the "doctrine" which says that the US vetos any bill on Israel that doesn't condemn Palestinian terrorists...
E_S
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
11/13/07 7:24pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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As far as creating the doctrine, that would have been Richard Holbrooke, who was appointed UN ambassador back in 1999. Holbrooke was deeply involved in the Balkans, and when his role there was complete, he focused on the ME region and transitioned policy between the Clinton and Bush administrations.
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
11/13/07 7:57pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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I don't see that anyone has linked to this . . .
Pat Buchanan on Musharraf
Basically, Buchanan rips on the "Bushites" for their ideology, saying that Musharraf declaring martial law is a good thing. That's nice and sensible of him.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
11/13/07 9:17pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Mr44 posted:
As far as creating the doctrine, that would have been Richard Holbrooke, who was appointed UN ambassador back in 1999. Holbrooke was deeply involved in the Balkans, and when his role there was complete, he focused on the ME region and transitioned policy between the Clinton and Bush administrations.
Really Mr44?
The Negroponte Doctrine, accredited to Mr Negroponte at the UN in 2002, is really from Richard Holbrooke? 
http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1208/p06s02-wome.html
Hmmmmm
Up is left and black is down!
E_S
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
11/13/07 10:35pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Except I didn't question what it is called, I pointed out that Negroponte didn't create it. (or as you used the terminology "responsible for.")
The US has vetoed quite a few UN resolutions regarding Israel in contemporary times, going all the way back decades. However, I think you're specifically referring to US relations with Israel in the post cold war era, or roughly from the mid-90's onward.
The first time the US tied a UN resolution to specific Palestinian terrorist groups (and ended up vetoing the proposal in question as a result) was on March 27, 2001.
(The resolution was Security Council Draft Resolution S/2001/270)
UN2001270
Although Holbrooke had just moved on, the veto was based on the position he developed as US ambassador to the UN from 1999-2001. Remember, the WTC had been bombed the first time back in 1993, followed by Khobar Towers, and US policy under Clinton had started to move in that direction of concern. Holbrooke was extremely pro-Israel and re-focused on the idea that Israel should be protected as a stable democracy in the region to be used as a base of operations.
You'll also note the date of the veto occurred a good 7 months before Negroponte was even appointed to the UN. (James Cunningham was interim, but simply carried on Holbrooke's policies.) It's difficult for someone to be "responsible for" a policy when the policy was set in place before that person was even appointed to the postion. The veto itself represents a policy that was "transitioned" between administrations.
Negroponte continued that policy as UN ambassador as well, but he certainly wasn't responsible for it. That's an important distinction now, because there's no reason to assume that he'll have any greater hurdles to jump over.
And as a side note, the policy doesn't apply to any and all Palestinian terrorist groups, but rather 3 specific ones- Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the al Aksa Martyrs. All three groups are on the international terrorist watch list and recognized by the UNSC as such anyway.
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DarthKarde
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
11/14/07 6:42am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Obi-Zahn Kenobi posted:
I don't see that anyone has linked to this . . .
Pat Buchanan on Musharraf
Basically, Buchanan rips on the "Bushites" for their ideology, saying that Musharraf declaring martial law is a good thing. That's nice and sensible of him.
I can't say I disagree with much that Buchanan said in that article. The cold hard reality is that an islamist government in Pakistan is absolutely unacceptable and Musharraf is the best bet to prevent such a nightmare scenario.
It is worth noting that inspite of the fact that Bhutto has again been placed under house arrest we are still not seeing any large scale demonstrations. Unless anything extraordinary happens Musharraf seems to be in control of the situation.
It will be interesting to see if she is released after her 7 day detention order expires. Musharraf might think it a good idea to keep her in Lahore where she is isolated from her power base in Karachi.
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
11/14/07 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
11/14/07 12:46pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
ShaneP
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I agree with Buchanan. I also enjoy reading his usual rips against the Bushie neocons who've gutted the GOP.
edit:
Musharraf has announced he'll quit the military next month and rule as a civilian.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
11/14/07 1:42pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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No, Mr44, I'm talking about the Negroponte Doctrine which is effectively a US policy "platform" that states the US will not support any resolution even mildly critical of Israel unless that same resolution contains an unequivocal condemnation of Palestinan terrorists. It's specific to a general defence of Israel in the UN in the post cold-war world and I'm amused that you think I'd get that wrong.
Also, it seems Imran Kahn was arrested for dissent overnight.
E_S
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