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Topic:
Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Mr44
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
11/14/07 4:25pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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No, Mr44, I'm talking about the Negroponte Doctrine which is effectively a US policy "platform" that states the US will not support any resolution even mildly critical of Israel unless that same resolution contains an unequivocal condemnation of Palestinan terrorists. It's specific to a general defence of Israel in the UN in the post cold-war world and I'm amused that you think I'd get that wrong.
That's what I'm talking about as well.
The focus of the platform is not those proposals "even mildly critical of Israel," it's those resolutions that require Israel to do something while not upholding the status quo. (For example, one resolution that the US vetoed criticized Israel's detainment/deportation of Arafat, while making no mention of the capture of IDF soldiers) Had the resolution required equal action from both sides, the US wouldn't have vetoed it. The US is protective of Israel, but only with those proposals that don't have an "equal/opposite" reaction effect.
What happens is that certain Islamist groups influence certain other third party countries to sponsor these proposals.
Secondly, the platform is directed at 3 specific terrorist groups- Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and the al Aksa Martyrs-all groups recognized as such by the UNSC. It's not a blanket which covers generic terrorism.
Lastly, the policy was made a platform before Negroponte was even appointed as UN ambassador. It's a carry-over policy which was developed out of specific concerns.
Practically, the result is one of scale. Negroponte being sent to Pakistan isn't any more negative (from Pakistan's POV) than Holbrooke being sent there in the 90's. Both separate Pakistani goals and direction from Israeli goals and direction in relation to policy.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 5:41am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
12/27/07 5:43am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
G-FETT
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G-FETT posted:
Will Bhutto be assasinated? It looks to me like her life is in grave danger. If the Pakistan goverment don't get her, then surely Al Quaida will?
It was obvious it wouldn't end well, wasn't it?
Bhutto Killed In Blast
Between Al Queda and the Government, she made too many enemies.
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DarthKarde
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 5:48am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
12/27/07 5:56am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthKarde
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I'd would say that this is a shocking development. However it is not.
Chances are we will never really know if it was terrorists or elements within the Pakistani government who did it. It will be interesting to see if next months elections go ahead or not or if another state of emergency will be declared.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 6:02am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
12/27/07 6:03am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gonk
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Look, I don't want to sound like I'm anti-this or that, but my opinions on this board are well known... that I am getting very sick of THAT bloody nation.
I'm sure there are many good people in Pakistan. Some very good, well meaning and excellent people that put the citizens of other nations to shame.
But I am sick of the haywire, lawless politics of that nuclear country creating havoc for everybody not least of all themselves. Ever since General Huq took power back in the 80s that place has been in almost a death spiral and too many of their leaders have simply not cared about anything but their own power.
Other nations have been hardly innocent, but where there's smoke there's fire, and that place has been burning for a long, long time. Between creating the Taliban, instigating lopsided terror in India (the parliament attack in 2002 most notably), Ismail Khan and the nuclear network and NOW this...? Hell, they've disturbed the international community more in the past 10 years than Iran has done at any time since their revolution.
This was obviously an inside job. It's absolutely rediculous. Somebody call Richard Armitage.
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DarthKarde
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 6:11am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
12/27/07 6:13am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DarthKarde
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Gonk posted:
Look, I don't want to sound like I'm anti-this or that, but my opinions on this board are well known... that I am getting very sick of THAT bloody nation.
I'm sure there are many good people in Pakistan. Some very good, well meaning and excellent people that put the citizens of other nations to shame.
But I am sick of the haywire, lawless politics of that nuclear country creating havoc for everybody not least of all themselves. Ever since General Huq took power back in the 80s that place has been in almost a death spiral and too many of their leaders have simply not cared about anything but their own power.
Other nations have been hardly innocent, but where there's smoke there's fire, and that place has been burning for a long, long time. Between creating the Taliban, instigating lopsided terror in India (the parliament attack in 2002 most notably), Ismail Khan and the nuclear network and NOW this...? Hell, they've disturbed the international community more in the past 10 years than Iran has done at any time since their revolution.
This was obviously an inside job. It's absolutely rediculous. Somebody call Richard Armitage.
I can't disagree with much of that. That fact that the killing took place in Rawalpindi makes it all the more likely that the government (or elements of it) were involved. Rawalpindi is, for those who don't know, a garrison city that serves as HQ for the Pakistani Army and is considered one of the most secure cities in the country.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 6:12am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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I see you beat me to it, guys.
No surprises, but at the same time, shocking (paradoxical, I know).
ES
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Jansons_Funny_Twin
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 6:28am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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I heard about this a minute ago. Hurried over here, and lo, you guys are already on it.
Gonk, can't say I really blame you for your feelings. It does all seem very frustrating.
As for who did it...who the hell knows.
Ender_Sai posted:
I see you beat me to it, guys.
No surprises, but at the same time, shocking (paradoxical, I know).
ES
Don't worry, I feel the same way.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 7:55am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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I doubt the government would have had a hand in her actual death, but I suspect they may not have been affording the protection she deserved.
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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DarthArsenal6
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 10:24am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Benazir had many enimies not just from extremist and the govt.
Her rule during the 90s caused a lot of death in Karachi includng the rich.
THis could well be a revenge during those times.
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DarthKarde
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 10:59am
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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Al-Qa'eda have claimed responsibility.
source
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 12:22pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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I have to admit I had kind of gotten to thinking that we were over the hump with this when she survived the first attempt.
This is bad. Real bad.
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 5:27pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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I sincerely hope this doesn't spiral into a "we need to pre-emptively re-think our strategic relationship with Pakistan" monologue from certain elements in Washington, D.C.
D.C., hmm, he's precisely the one I'm hoping doesn't weigh in here.
Peace,
V-03
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Darth Mischievous
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 6:17pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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It's a tragedy, but I can't honestly say that I was surprised that it happened, either.
It certainly throws a monkey wrench into the US' Pakistan policy. I hope whatever happens politically, that their military will remain to have full control over their nukes.
It's the nightmare scenario if the extremists take over politically and gain full control of their WMDs.
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dizfactor
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 8:46pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
- Date Edited:
12/27/07 8:47pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
dizfactor
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My hope is that somewhere between them Nawaz Sharif, Asif Ali Zardari, Imran Khan, and the new presumptive head of the PPP can hammer out a viable, moderate, secular opposition coalition with a minimum of infighting and campaign under the halo of Benazir-as-martyr to build a new future for Pakistan with the support of the middle class.
I don't actually expect that to happen, I'm just sayin'.
If that can't happen, I agree with DM - someone has to secure the nukes and that has to take precedence over everything else.
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Ender_Sai
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Feb '01
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Date Posted:
12/27/07 10:04pm
Subject:
RE: Martial Law in Pakistan and what it means for the war on terror
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It's probably worth pointing out the nukes existed under far less pro-Western leaders than Gen. Musharraf in Pakistan. Or that Pakistan is much like India in having no real doctrine for the use of nookular weapons...
E_S
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