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Topic:
The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/9 5:56am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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Heh heh heh...DM is spellin' it out again. Truth tellin' will only get you angst around here son! 
The Dems have painted themselves into a corner and now will blame racism for it.
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God bless George Bush John McCain 2008 Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are" 
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
5/9 6:09am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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I think his inexperience, his associations and relationships, and his true ideology will be significant problems for him in the general election....
100 years in Iraq. "I don't know much about the economy." The Keating 5. Can't raise much money. Confusing sunni and shia. Temper. Age. W.
John McCain has his own problems, and some of them are big ones.
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"Discrimination doesn't violate anyone's rights, but prohibiting discrimination does."--KK
"Because John Bush..."--Tom Ridge
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Vaderize03
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
5/9 6:43am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 6:45am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Vaderize03
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J-Rod, that isn't truth, it's his, and your, perception of things. It's the "southern religious conservatism" prism of looking at national politics.
We've had eight years of this, and the country is tired of it. McCain not only is a very flawed candidate, but the country is in a very bad place, and the republicans are going to get blamed for it. Laying the responsibility at the feet of the democratic congress isn't going to work, people have just woken up too much to fall for it. Bush is going to get tacked on to everything, including McCain. The press hasn't even begun on him yet, and it will be much closer to November when they do.
All this talk of the democratics being split in November is just that-talk. Right now, passions are riding high. They will cool before the fall, because everyone who doesn't want another four years of GOP rule (and that's enough people, IMHO, to win the White House for the dems) understands that they will have to stand united, and they will. All this talk of race baiting, of McCain cleaning up the mess, it isn't going to happen.
It's just not the republicans' year. The same things were being said back in '02-'04, about how the dems were "done". Well, they've come back. The GOP will also "come back", but right now, the cycle is turning. How strongly, and for how long, is anybody's guess, but it is.
I highly, highly doubt that the incumbent party will win with gas around $4.50 a gallon by the time of the election, if not higher. It's certainly possible, but there's going to need to be a photo of Obama on the beach in a bikini next to bin Laden or something to do it.
This election hopefully will be about the issues, and on the issues, right now, the democrats have it. Not because their ideas are necessarily better, but because they represent a change. You're free to disagree, but this time around, the deep south is going to be marginalized in national politics, just like center-leftism has been the past eight years.
Peace,
V-03
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/9 6:47am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 7:02am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
J-Rod
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J-Rod, that isn't truth, it's his, and your, perception of things. It's the "southern religious conservatism" prism of looking at national politics.
Brutha, I find this a little offensive. I'm not Southern nor do I beliong to any religious organisation.
You'll have to find another reason as to why my view is so different than yours. 
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God bless George Bush John McCain 2008 Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are"
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/9 7:25am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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I agree with the conservatives that Obama has some lurking, secret ideology. Here it is: he wants to be president. He wants it badly. This is his overriding ideology. He's an erudite Harvard-educated lawyer who probably gritted his teeth sitting through those sermons but did it because he needed that kind of connection to succeed in Chicago as a springboard to his campaign for the Illinois legislature as a springboard for his senate campaign as a springboard for his campaign for the presidency.
He has shown his willingness to take the side of big business, he has shown his skill at handling the big political donors and the political connections necessary to organize a campaign.
Those who think he has some kind of secret socialist agenda are smoking crack. He wants to be whatever kind of democrat he needs to be to win the presidency and serve two terms.
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Darth Geist
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
5/9 8:00am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 8:27am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth Geist
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You know, there's all this talk on the Republican side about how unelectable Obama is, but if he's so unelectable, why is he winning? And why is Fox News so hellbent on going after him if they don't have to bother? (Seriously, when O'Reilly's first question to Hillary is, "So how about this Pastor Wright guy?" you know who the Republicans don't want to go up against.)
In fact, stop me if I've mentioned this before, but did you hear about the the Time Fox News covered Obama's winning streak? All the pictures in the article about him pulling ahead of Hillary, and facing McCain, had the filename "doomsday.jpg." That should tell you something.
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J-Rod
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/9 8:14am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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Darth Geist posted:
You know, there's all this talk on the Republican side about how unelectable Obama is, but if he's so unelectable, why is he winning? And why is Fox News so hellbent on going after him if they don't have to bother? (Seriously, when O'Reilly's first question to Hillary is, "So how about this Pastor Wright guy?" you know who the Republicans don't want to go up against.)
In fact, stop me if I've mentioned this before, but did you hear about the the Time Fox News covered Obama's winning streak? All the pictures in the article about him pulling ahead of Hillary, and facing McCain, had the filename "doomsday.jpg. That should tell you something.
Great article for the media thread! But it depends on who's "dommsday" the title was refurring to. Hill's? McCain's? America's? You're left to decide for yourself based on your own personal bias.
But understand that O'Reilly ain't a Republican. And if he softballed Hill then he hates Obama. If he grilled Hill then it is proof that he hates Hillary. It was a no win interview that he conducted pretty even-handedly.
And don't confuse O]Reilly with a news achor for Fox. He's a commentaor on a network that is watched by a demographic that descibes itself mose as independant.
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God bless George Bush John McCain 2008 Darth_wanderguard :"Maybe you're not quite as crazy as people say you are"
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ObiWan506
Title: JC Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
5/9 8:21am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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McCain, or any Republican, will be very wise to never to mention Rev. Wright because it will backfire with Jerry Falwell. You know the Obama camp has that response waiting on the back burner.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
5/9 8:23am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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The Dems have painted themselves into a corner and now will blame racism for it.
I don't know about racism -- I mean some will -- but I'll certainly blame the country as being presdisoposed towards the Republican party, and putting the GOP before thier own nation.
What else can you say when you vote for Bush over Kerry, and then turn around and take this guy McCain -- who's very much like an older version of John Kerry (a long-time Senator, Vietnam vet [although in a less dirty air war], married to a rather wealthy woman, tendancy to "flip-flop" to at least the same degree) -- and then vote for him over Obama?
Come on, you're obviously voting for the party before the candidate, and it doesn't really matter who was put up there unless the GOP candidate ended up being particularly reprehensible. For someone to go on these decisions in back to back presidential elections and expect me to swallow that this it was ever really about the sort of candidates that were actually fielded is simply a hypocrite, and no doubt as worthy of office themselves as the very "Washington attitude" they are often given to decry.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/9 8:44am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 8:46am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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American politics is what it is. The Democrats may well increase their majority in Congress while losing the presidency to McCain. This would be an acceptable solution for most Americans. They like Republican presidents, but would also perhaps prefer a president who was more constrained/contained by Congress than George Bush has been in his two terms.
The American people aren't done yet punishing the Republicans for their years in power in Congress. They don't necessarily want to punish Republicans for 8 years of George Bush.
Nevertheless, I think Obama will do well. A big factor in November is going to be voter turnout. The primaries proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that Republican voters are badly demoralized.
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Malthusian Doomsday Quack
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Darth Geist
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
5/9 9:02am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 9:08am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Darth Geist
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Yeah, the Republicans really did settle for McCain this time around. A quarter of them are still voting for Huckabee and Ron Paul. Seriously, DM: All these pages of Obama-bashing, and practically nothing to say about McCain? Shouldn't that tell you something?
J-Rod posted:
But it depends on who's "dommsday" the title was refurring to. Hill's? McCain's? America's? You're left to decide for yourself based on your own personal bias.
Only one of the "doomsday" pictures (there were six of them) even mentioned Hillary, so she's out. And whether Fox News thinks Obama would be McCain's doomsday or America's (or the Republican party's), you know which camp they're in. They're terrified of him. Remember Palpatine: "All those with power are afraid to lose it."
If he came into power, he'd probably reinstate the Fairness Doctrine. That's the old law that said news stations had to report objectively, on both sides of an issue. Reagan got rid of that, after the news ran too many objective stories about him. If Obama brings it back, Fox News effectively ceases to exist.
And J-Rod, come on; everyone knows Fox News pays lip service to fairness and balance, then sides with the Republicans every time push comes to shove. They ask loaded questions, they edit out unfavorable portions of interviews, they pull quotes out of context and loop them ad nauseum. O'Reilly's the same way; he pretends to be independent, but he's as red as it gets. (Remember that time he told people that Mark Foley, the Republican convicted of soliciting underage sex with a boy, was a Democrat? Yeah.)
See, just about everyone thinks they're in the middle — because there's always someone further down either end — so they think that whoever tells them what they want to hear must also be in the middle.
And seriously, there's a difference between "softballing" Hillary and helping her gang up on her opponent.
Not that it helped: For all this talk on the right about Obama being a weak candidate, he defeated Hillary, who started out from a much stronger position than he did. She had name recognition, strong ties to a favorable presidency, and if Obama's race can be considered an advantage, then certainly her gender can be too. And he still won, both on his own merits and on her mistakes. He'll win the general too.
By the way, J-Rod, still waiting for your response: Do you really believe that Saddam was going to use his oil and roll tanks over the ocean to get us? Do you know something our intelligence services don't? Or could you just admit that McCain said we invaded to take their oil (no matter how many different ways he tried to spin it later), and be done with it?
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Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
5/9 9:11am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 9:17am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Gonk
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American politics is what it is. The Democrats may well increase their majority in Congress while losing the presidency to McCain. This would be an acceptable solution for most Americans. They like Republican presidents, but would also perhaps prefer a president who was more constrained/contained by Congress than George Bush has been in his two terms.
I'm not looking so much in terms of this election and this term of presidency; for once the trajectory will be going upward in terms of leadership capacity for the first time since 1988. And that was itself probably the first definite time it happened since... cripes, you'd probably have to go back to Hoover (sorry I'm just NOT accepting Reagan was a significant improvement over Carter; but then I'm not so convinced JFK was necessarily an improvement over Eisenhower either though he certainly wasn't a step down). Every other time it's either sort of stayed even or dropped.
What I am concerned with is whoever comes after this next President, and further into the future. If the aftermath of Reagan is any indication, there may be an effort to quasi-deify John McCain in the same fashion. Or much more likely, it will be all there for a later Republican leader to use. And while McCain's a more down to earth person than to let it get too out of control, I'm not completely convinced he's got enough of a grip on his own party to keep it from spewing the mindset that's been hurting the country as a whole time after time.
Normally I suppose it wouldn't concern me. I mean, both parties in Britain have thier own party lines. But it doesn't bother me because -- other than the fact Britian is not the sole Superpower -- by and large the British people don't believe that crap from either Labor or the Tories. Some might and maybe a large group might buy into certain things for a short period of time, but over a decade or two both messages just end up getting lost in the wash. There's significant political turnover, and neither party can rely on the other party not getting support if they don't happen to deliver.
That's NOT the case in the US. If McCain doesn't attempt to in some way dismantle this myth-making machine -- something not terribly in his interest to begin with and something he might be powerless to do in any event -- then that will terminally leave the door open for another George Bush to abuse that power.
And why not? If you can screw up as much as you like without any political repercussions because you're a Republican and your opponent is a Democrat, the only thing you have to worry about is another party emerging that's more like you, something that itself is unlikely to begin with. It opens itself to abuse and a bad government that points to the reason that makes it bad (overall public refusal to empower the opposition) and says the fact that it's not a good government is because that very reason's not being adhered to strongly enough by said public.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/9 9:54am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 9:58am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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Ronald Reagan was deified because he was shot. Period. End of story. He was just a president until that happened. I remember the early days of his presidency, when he was openly reviled by the left. After he was shot, his detractors basically went into hiding. He would not have enjoyed the popularity he received without having become a near martyr for the conservative cause.
Remember that George Bush Sr. was not protected by the Reagan aura.
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Gonk
Registered:
Jul '98
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Date Posted:
5/9 10:32am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
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Ronald Reagan was deified because he was shot. Period. End of story. He was just a president until that happened.
Maybe, maybe not -- well actually that sounds quite plausible to me, he IS the one that supposedly broke the "curse of Techumseh/Tippoconoe".
But his deification... to me anyway... seems to have gone far beyond his personality and deified his party, positions, and anything associated with him as well. Which ends up giving the benefit of the doubt to a Republican before a Democrat in large swaths of the country, and gives FOX an audience.
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Leto II
Registered:
Jan '00
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Date Posted:
5/9 10:53am
Subject:
RE: The 2008 US Elections: Discussion, Opinion, Predictions
- Date Edited:
5/9 11:11am (4 edits total)
Edited By:
Leto II
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And there it is. Obama takes the lead in superdelegates. It's over.
The Democrats certainly have a target-rich environment. They can portray McCain's platform as being too much for the status quo, as well as point to the widespread corruption and general lack of accountability throughout the party in general. I don't get the impression McCain's too worried about cleaning up his own house.
I don't get the impression he's a strong campaigner, either. The Republicans might have to depend on FOX News to win the election for them. And why not? It worked last time, and now Karl Rove is being piped directly into the homes of people you probably know and/or love.
I bet a lot more people can talk about McCain being a war hero than can describe his plans for, say, education.
Bush actually did a lot of the heavy lifting for Obama back in the 2000 election. His machine was so effective in discrediting McCain in the eyes of the Republican base that even now hardcore GOPers think he's bat**** crazy from his Vietnam experience. Limbaugh and Coulter came out for Hillary over McCain, and though I doubt they can get people to blindly vote their way, they do have influence.
So I think we have a race that will be determined by the independent voters. But Obama will have an edge, in that he will have a majority of the Democratic base solidly behind him, while McCain won't.
Also...this is awesome.
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