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Topic:
The end of cheap food
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yankee8255
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
4/8 12:37am
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
- Date Edited:
4/8 12:42am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
yankee8255
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There's also a problem in the US with biofuels causing serious ecological problems in the Mississippi Basin, as all the fertilizer needed for the corn drains into the Gulf, killing off everything. I saw an article recently, I'll try to find it.
EDIT: article
EDIT2: Regarding the Krugman article, he says "all the remaining presidential contenders are awful on the issue". however, I know McCain has specifically said he would stop the subsidies.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
4/8 7:13am
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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I wonder whether any president would be able to end the practice absent some kind of overwhelming national outcry.
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
4/8 9:33pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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The Haitians just overran the presidential palace, demanding the president resign over the soaring price of food, and were broken up by the UN but continued to riot through the capital.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080409/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/haiti_food_protests
I know Haiti is already one of the poorest countries, but as food continues to go up I fear we could see the same in other 3rd world countries, eventually enough to cause some serious political instability for them and their neighbors. If it happens in Mexico we will see serious consequences in the U.S., probably a huge increase in the number of illegal immigrants. I hope we never see the day where there are food riots in the U.S.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/8 11:37pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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I don't think you can really compare Haiti with any other country in the western hemisphere. I haven't been to Haiti itself, but I have been to the Haitian worker camps in the DR. And the difference between the poor in Mexico and the DR compared to those worker camps was more shocking to me than going from the US to Mexico.
I suppose food riots are a concern elsewhere, but Haiti already had severe food shortages.
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Fluke_Groundrunner
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
4/9 9:09am
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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Espaldapalabras,
Have you seen the documentary The Price of Sugar? It's about a priest who is trying to improve the working conditions for the Haitians in the DR work camps. If you have seen it, do you think it is an accurate depiction of the situation?
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dianethx
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
4/9 9:50am
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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One thing that hasn't really been addressed is the increasing use of marginal lands to plant corn for the ethanol 'fuel'. If the drought in the Western US continues (which it is likely to do in the wake of increasing temperatures due to global warming) and they use and reuse marginal lands, there is the possibility of another Dust Bowl, similar to the one in the 30s. Those lands are not used for a reason. Yes, the farmers may be aware of it but since family farming isn't exactly a high-paying job, the temptation is sometimes too great to pass up. And don't get me started on agrobusiness...
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/9 5:07pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
- Date Edited:
4/9 5:12pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Espaldapalabras
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I haven't seen that documentary, but it doesn't surprise me that somebody made a documentary about it. Seeing the men work in the fields using a huge cart with 6 oxen with an overseer on a horse with a gun or whip was like taking a trip back in time. But it isn't just the sugar cane fields, what looked even more strenous was the construction work they did. The Haitians that were pouring the cement and such were the most ripped guys I have ever seen. They made Mexicans workers here look like fat lazy slobs.
I don't know how far the documentary gets into it, but the Dominican racism agaist the Haitians is a cruel irony. I got a kick out of those that complained about US immigration policies and racism, and in the next sentence would spout more racism and virtol against the Haitians than even the most redneck hick here.
Edit: I would just add one thing, most of the Haitians I talked to, while clearly a second class in the DR, were much happier working for a dollar a day there than going back to their country where there was nothing. And I was there in 2004, and the last thing they wanted was to go back to their war torn and environmentally destroyed country. So while the elites might have been exploiting them, at least when they were being exploited they were at least being given enough to live, which is more than they would have got before.
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
4/9 7:17pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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I know for a fact McCain has long been against the subsidy program. But as Jabba suggested, any president would face difficulty overcoming a likely legislative majority that would threaten an override or threat of veto.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
4/14 11:01am
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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White House: Bush concerned about food shortages
Concerns about food costs took on new urgency as senators in Haiti ousted the prime minister after a week of food-related rioting in which at least five people died. There have also been protests in Cameroon, Niger and Burkina Faso in Africa, and in Indonesia and the Philippines.
At the United Nations, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said rapidly worsening food shortages around the world had "reached emergency proportions."
Talk about rock and hard place, where the rock is energy prices and the hard place is food prices.
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Darth-Ghost
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
4/14 4:17pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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It's all happening so much sooner than I thought. Shortages of energy, food, water, the financial crisis, the recession. Let's hope the hurricanes, wildires, and other natural disasters remain low this summer or else we might hit a point where the impact on the average person is very visible. Another terrorist attack, or escalation of the violence in Iraq, could do the trick too. We also have a presidential election to worry about. I'm getting the feeling that 2008 will be a very bad year. 
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
4/14 5:43pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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It's definitely boom times for Cassandras. I've been hard pressed to find anyone who believes the global food crisis will resolve itself in a nice way.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/14 5:51pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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Jabbadabbado posted:
White House: Bush concerned about food shortages
Concerns about food costs took on new urgency as senators in Haiti ousted the prime minister after a week of food-related rioting in which at least five people died. There have also been protests in Cameroon, Niger and Burkina Faso in Africa, and in Indonesia and the Philippines.
At the United Nations, Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon said rapidly worsening food shortages around the world had "reached emergency proportions."
Talk about rock and hard place, where the rock is energy prices and the hard place is food prices.
Like the stagflation problem 30 years ago.
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Espaldapalabras
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/14 10:33pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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I don't really think this is the same situation that lead to stagflation in the 70s. We have yet to see real wage inflation, so while prices may be going up the consumer is actually being forced to reduce consumption which in the long term will help us recover from the recession.
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/14 10:37pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
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Espaldapalabras posted:
I don't really think this is the same situation that lead to stagflation in the 70s. We have yet to see real wage inflation, so while prices may be going up the consumer is actually being forced to reduce consumption which in the long term will help us recover from the recession.
But wouldn't increased consumption help an economy recover from the recession faster? With reduced consumption, and less sales, many businesses are in danger of bankruptcy, or at least have to scale back considerably, because of the credit crunch.
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KnightWriter
Title:
Administrator Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '01
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Date Posted:
4/14 10:40pm
Subject:
RE: The end of cheap food
- Date Edited:
4/14 10:40pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
KnightWriter
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Espaldapalabras posted:
I don't really think this is the same situation that lead to stagflation in the 70s. We have yet to see real wage inflation, so while prices may be going up the consumer is actually being forced to reduce consumption which in the long term will help us recover from the recession.
I meant in terms of twin problems.
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