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Author	Topic: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
LostOnHoth Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 3/4 6:25pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology - Date Edited: 3/4 6:35pm (1 edits total) Edited By: LostOnHoth
	Yeah I agree with that. It's like the allegations made by David Yallop in his book "In God's Name" in which he convincingly argues that Pope John Paul I was actually murdered by elements of the Vatican Bank, the Roman Curia and the Italian banking mafioso. If the allegations are true, then something is very rotten in the Vatican. However, such behaviour should not impugn the Roman Catholic Church as a whole, its teachings and its institutions. The problem with Scientology is that it is so obviously just a commercial venture, just like any other "self help" philosophy that turns a buck by selling books and DVDS. Scientology of course turns more than a buck and has been given a religious slant to acheive favourable tax treatment and to widen its popularity/appeal. In my view, any organisation that promotes itself as a "religion" but is in nature a commercial enterprise is inherently conflicted and it is inevitable that it will attract the sort of people that act despicably. Greed is like that. I've read a little bit of Dianetics and think if it lost its "religious" element and just acknowledged that it was a "self help" philosophy then it would attract a different breed of people to the organisation as I think it is a viable philosophy. I don't agree with all of it, but I can tell you from first hand experience that it certainly had a positive effect on my friend. He came out of it a much happier person. That's not to say that any form of counselling would have had the same effect as it most probably would have but I have to give Scientology the benefit of the doubt. -----signature----- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
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Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 3/4 11:22pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	I copied and pasted the following from http://www.exscientologykids.com/seaorg.html -- a site "designed, owned, and operated by three young women who grew up in Scientology, and later left the Church." The site provides a wealth of factual information about the CoS, including personal testimony from ex-members. The following description of the Sea Org -- described elsewhere as a "paramilitary organization" which runs the day-to-day and financial affairs of the CoS -- should suffice to answer any calls for "damning evidence" of malfeasance by the Church. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Sea Org / Cadet Org So what is the Sea Org, exactly? Are all Scientologists in the Sea Org? Why are so many critics opposed to it? What do Sea Org members do? How do they live? What was the Cadet Org? This page explains. What is the Sea Org? The Sea Org, short for "The Sea Organization", is Scientology's parish (for lack of a better word). Not all Scientologists are in the Sea Org, but the most dedicated ones usually are. The current leader of Scientology, David Miscavige, is also in command of the Sea Org. The Sea Org's organizational structure is an odd mixture of military and corporate management styles, with staff members living in army-like conditions, receiving boot-camp type punishments for misdeeds, and holding militaristic titles within the organization. When a Scientologist joins the Sea Org, he signs a contract agreeing to serve for 1 billion years (no typo - 1,000,000,000 years). Because Scientologists believe in re-incarnation, the Sea Org member is expected to return and serve again in his or her next life. For more information on the history of the Sea Org, check out the Wikipedia page. What do Sea Org members do? Sea Org members handle most aspects and functions of the CoS. Sea Org members do everything from cleaning the churches to fundraising, from delivering auditing services to investigating critics, from cooking to executive management. Sea Org members live together, work together, eat together, and are not allowed to marry outside of the organization. Who joins the Sea Org? The huge majority of Sea Org members are the children of Scientologists, or else they are long-time Scientologists who have been in the church for years and years. This is because not everyone is qualified for the Sea Org. If you have ever taken LSD, or undergone psychiatric treatment of any kind, you are automatically disqualified from joining. However, the children of Scientologists are perfect bait for Sea Org recruiters. Scientology kids almost never do drugs, they have never seen a psychiatrist, they already understand the Scientology lifestyle, they're eager to get out on their own in the world, they have no property, no career, and few possessions to worry about, and they are young enough to be susceptible to guilt-trips, group pressure, and grandiose promises. What's the difference between Sea Org and 'staff'? Scientologists refer to 'staff' as people who are not in the Sea Org but still work for Scientology. There are certain positions that only a Sea Org member can hold, but there are other jobs that may be held by staff. Sometimes people join staff because although they want to help Scientology, they have families to support and can't do it on Sea Org pay. Also, Sea Org members are not allowed to be married to someone who is not in the Sea Org, so sometimes people join staff because their spouse does not want to join the SO. Or, they are disqualified from joining the Sea Org because of drug run-ins during their youth, and joining staff is as close as they can get. Staff members are paid very little, and often have to keep another job to make ends meet. They live outside of the org, in their own homes, and the church does not provide food and amenities. How many Sea Org members are there in the world? We don't have access to those records, but we'd say probably 10,000-20,000. What's wrong with the Sea Org, and why do critics oppose it? Critics believe that the Sea Organization is one of the most abusive groups in the world. The abuses that go on daily in the Sea Org are all that more egregious because, due to Scientology's religious status, law enforcement is reticent to investigate. Here are just a few aspects of Sea Org life, taken from hundreds of personal testimonials from ex-Sea Org members, that are decried by critics: Sea Org members are not permitted to have children while working for the organization. Couples who get pregnant are either pressured to abort the baby, or they must leave. Often, these people have been in the Sea Org so long, they have nowhere to go, no resume outside of Scientology, no job experience, no finances, no property, and no non-Scientology friends. Anyone who leaves the Sea Org without permission is declared a Suppressive Person by the Church of Scientology, and is ostracized from family, friends, and loved ones. It is very difficult to get permission to leave the Sea Org, and one cannot simply quit and then walk out the door. The "approved" leaving process involves up to 3 years of hard physical labor, E-metered confessionals, social isolation and group pressure. Sea Org members live in horrible conditions. Unmarried members never have rooms to themselves, regardless of age, but instead live in small rooms with 3-12 other members. Members are often denied proper sleep and are often forced to skip meals because of the pressures of the job. Sea Org members are denied proper medical care. They are not provided health insurance, are not given sick days, and the Sea Org will not purchase their medicine for them. If a free clinic won't provide the medicine someone needs, the Sea Org management won't shoulder the costs. There are numerous cases of people who have become very ill in the Sea Org, or who had pre-existing medical conditions, and were not allowed to seek medical treatment. Sickness is also treated as the fault of the sick person, because Scientologists believe that the only reason someone gets sick is that they are connected to a Suppressive Person. They believe that you can decide not to get sick. So when someone becomes ill, they are treated as though they have done something wrong by not "handling" the situation. Because Scientology has religious status in many countries, labor laws do not apply to the Sea Org. Therefore, Sea Org members have no protection from long and abusive work hours. Many work 17-20 hours days because of the pressures of the job. Anyone who complains is treated as though they are "not getting with the program", "unethical", or "not on board". There are thousands of minors working under these conditions in the Sea Org. Sea Org members rarely have more than a few hours off a week. Even during this off-time, they are not permitted to go far from the compound where they live and work. If managements decides that they have not worked hard enough, they are not allowed time off for Christmas, New Years, birthdays or national holidays. As only married members get rooms to themselves, many children who join the Sea Org marry very young - sometimes at 15 or 16 years of age - just so that they can have a room to themselves. Sea Org members do not have their own phone numbers (unless they are allowed a cell phone), may not watch TV, are not allowed to own a personal computer with internet connections, and are only infrequently allowed to watch pre-approved movies. Spouses and family members in the Sea Org rarely see each other. The Sea Org management reserves the right to ship different family members off to work in other countries or areas without any approval from the spouse. Husbands may be sent away from their wives, mothers may be sent away from their children, etc. If the family complains, they are punished. Families who have members in the Sea Org and other members who are not in the Sea Org rarely see each other. Mothers and fathers with children in the Sea Org may not call them directly, but must call the organization and ask to speak with them. Letters that Sea Org members write to their families, and letters that they receive from the outside, are screened by Sea Org censors for "entheta" (unhappiness, negativity) before they are passed on. Anyone complaining of unhappiness in the Sea Org in their letters is disciplined, and the letter is not delivered. If a family member sends a letter to someone inside expressing concern about the conditions there, the censor pressures the intended letter recipient to "handle" the sender, often with a monitored phone call in which they are made to say how happy they are, and that everything is going fine. If a Sea Org member commits a punishable offense, they are sent to the RPF, or Rehabilitation Project Force, which is a sort of boot camp for "bad" Sea Org members. People on the RPF may only eat the food left over after the other SO members have eaten, may not speak to a Sea Org member unless spoken to, are not allowed to walk (they must run everywhere), are not allowed holidays, receive even less pay than SO members, and are required to do hard manual labor for long hours. People can be assigned to the RPF for up to 10 years. Members are put under tremendous psychological pressure. They are expected work as hard as need be without complaint, sacrificing food, sleep, family, and off hours. Often the things they are asked to do are beyond the realm of human possibility, and yet they are criticized for not getting these things done, even when they've tried as hard as they possibly can. Many Sea Org members who leave cite this as one of the most debilitating aspects of the Sea Org - they work and work and work, and yet their boss tells them it is never good enough. Their bosses, of course, are under exactly the same kind of pressure from their bosses, who are under the same from theirs, and so forth. Why would anyone put up with those conditions? What most people don't understand is that most of the people in the Sea Org either grew up in Scientology, or have been in Scientology for many, many years. They are trapped in a situation where they really believe they are saving the planet. Many of them put up with these conditions because they have been told that this is the only way they can help mankind, and they honestly believe this is so. They may feel that they are enduring hard conditions, but management tells them that the earth is in peril, and that they endure this hardship for the good of humanity. Since anyone expressing doubt or unhappiness is disciplined, no one is willing to outwardly show discontent. Though a person may be unhappy in the SO, he looks around and sees everyone else wearing dedicated faces and doing their jobs, and thinks that something must be wrong with him for wanting to leave. Management also paints the world outside of Scientology like an evil place, awash in drugs, sex, and misery. They are told they cannot trust the "real world" law - only Scientology law is good and just, while the legal system outside is corrupt and untrustworthy. While Sea Org members may not be happy, they are constantly told that outside it is much worse. Anyone who leaves is painted as a criminal, a coward, and a traitor. Since most of them are denied access to the outside world, they have no opportunity to interact with those who are leading healthy, productive lives outside; and moreover, they are encouraged to think that people on the outside aren't dedicated enough. Combine all these factors with lack of sleep, lack of food, and lack of time to think, and you might understand why that many people would "willingly" shoulder that kind of abuse. Why hasn't law enforcement done anything about this? Good question. Why don't you write your congressman and ask? What was the Cadet Org? In reading critical testimonies of ex-Sea Org members, you may hear mention of the Cadet Org. The Cadet Org was originally intended as a sort of pre-Sea Org for the children of Sea Org members. However, a few years ago, a ruling was passed that no Sea Org members are allowed to have children. Children were distracting their parents from work, and it was too much financial strain on the organization. So the Cadet Org was disbanded, and is no longer in existence. Now, Sea Org members who get pregnant are kicked out or pressured to have an abortion. If someone who already has children wants to join, the children have to sign the contract, too. -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 3/4 11:31pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	Arg! Scrollies bad! Linkies good! Go back to the SW boards if you're going to post like that!
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LostOnHoth Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 3/5 12:17am Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology - Date Edited: 3/5 12:20am (1 edits total) Edited By: LostOnHoth
	No it does not suffice because it may all be a load of rot for all we know. You should be cautious about accepting stories told by ex members of an organisation at face value. They may well have an axe to grind and are willing to commit slander & libel in the course of retribution. -----signature----- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
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Darth Geist Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 3/5 12:47am Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology - Date Edited: 3/5 1:52am (8 edits total) Edited By: Darth Geist
	If it were only one or two stories, I'd agree — but when all the information we have on Sea Org agrees, and nothing contradicts it, what does that say? Has some worldwide, anti-CoS conspiracy (probably funded by psychologists) gotten together to tell the same bogus story for years and years? Given the CoS' massive, documented crimes, is Sea Org really that unbelievable? By all means, gather all the information you can before deciding what to believe — but again, all the information that's ever come out points one way only, and it comes from many, many sources over the course of decades. Here's one source: The Sea Org contract. Just as described in exscientologykids, it features the words, "I COMMIT MYSELF TO THE SEA ORG FOR THE NEXT BILLION YEARS." Janet Reitman corroborates the existence — and purpose — of the RPF in her Rolling Stone article "Inside Scientology." This may be the first you've heard of any of this, and you're not alone in that regard; the CoS works hard to keep its skeletons in the closet. But don't write it off just because it might sound too bad to be true. Speaking of bad: CoS leader David Miscavige takes a group of 17 large men to bully an elderly widow into signing away her fortune, as told in a court affidavit by one of the large men. (The widow, of course, was Hubbard's wife, who Miscavige promptly stripped of rank and placed under surveillance for the rest of her life.) Five different private investigators testify to being paid by the CoS to stalk that same large man, after he left the church, in an attempt to undermine the credibility of his testimony in the Lisa McPherson wrongful death case. And, just in case you hadn't heard of it: The Lisa McPherson wrongful death case. With sources galore. Religious or secular, this is not how a legitimate organization behaves. -----signature----- Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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LostOnHoth Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 3/5 3:05am Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	Yes, multiple corroborating stories make it much easier for me to believe it. I was responding to the singular source quoted above. A single website does not constitute "hard damning evidence" in my book. -----signature----- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
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Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 3/5 9:22am Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	Honestly, if you would follow the link to the site, you'd see that these ex-S'ists' "agenda" is to help current children of S'ists deal with their difficult lifestyle "in a non-judgemental fashion" and to publicly air their grievances -- and hundreds of others' grievances -- with the CoS. The three women who maintain the site are in fact very respectful to the CoS and are careful not to slander it or break copyright law. If you simply follow the link (on the previous page) to the site and surf around for awhile, you'll see that these are obviously not made-up stories at all, but true testimonies from ex- and current members of the CoS. If they were made up they'd be a lot more damning, but alot of the testimony is simply boring. One has to sift through reams of verbiage to get to the occasional instances of Church malfeasance. This is why an article like the one I posted on the previous page is so helpful, because it collates all the stories into one edited overview of the particular subject. I offered the article about the Sea Org, but there are numerous other articles and links to video interviews that are obviously valid and truthful. There are also numerous official documents of the CoS itself, re-printed within the Fair Use clauses of copyright law, that show the CoS is not above injuring, slandering, and otherwise harrassing to the extreme persons it deems to be its enemies. This is not conjecture or spurious finger-pointing; it's hard evidence, the official papers and laws of the organization itself. You may continue to dismiss the detailed testimonies of hundreds of ex-members, and the printed materials of the organization itself, and suggest that these accusations may be slander and libel, but that does nothing to explain why so many ex-members would have an "axe to grind" in the first place. The Catholic Church, for example, does not face opposing websites that feature hundreds of articles, testimonies and videos of ex-members decrying its abuses in uniformly detailed accounts of clear and obvious human rights violations. I was on the fence about Scientology before I spent about 4 hours last night following many of the various links listed on previous pages of this thread. The sheer volume of accusations against the CoS -- in court documents by a former second-in-command of the Sea Org, for one -- indicate to my logical mind that something outside normal acceptable religious practices is taking place here, and has been for at least 40 years. LostOnHoth posted: No it does not suffice because it may all be a load of rot for all we know. You should be cautious about accepting stories told by ex members of an organisation at face value. They may well have an axe to grind and are willing to commit slander & libel in the course of retribution. -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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LostOnHoth Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 3/5 1:39pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	I followed the link and accessed the site and have done so many times reading material brought up in this thread. You might find it all very compelling and to a degree I do as well but I am also very cautious about accepting such stories at face value. Anyone can allege and provide detailed and compelling testimony, if anything the less dramatic the more believable it is. There are two sides to every story and I am being fed only one side which is not the proper basis for judgement. Ten years in the law has taught me that. I am also very aware that the Church of Scientology takes aggressive action against people who are openly and publicly hostile to it and this action stands in stark contrast to the position taken by other 'religions'. I accept that but I think we all know that Scientology is not really a "religion" but a very big and powerful commercial enterprise. I think of the Church of Scientology as I would any large corporate organisation and so I don't hold the organisation as whole responsible for the actions of its executive. There are many, many examples of corporate wrongdoing and in my opinion the Church of Scientology is at risk because it has fused pure commercialism with a religious angle which has attracted to it the sort of people who we see acting quite despicably. Unfortunately, it is these people that ruin some of the potential positives that might come out of Scientology and Dianetics. I'm no fan of Scientology but I'm also not entirely convinced that everything I see and read about Scientology is necessarily true. Also, coming from Australia we don't seem to have the same issues here, so my persepctive is a little different to yours. -----signature----- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
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Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 3/5 2:27pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	Fair enough, but I would remind you that court documents, and the official papers of the CoS itself, reproduced in various places under the "Fair Use" clauses of copyright law, are not "stories" at all and do not constitute conjecture, slander or libel on any level. Rather these official materials, legally and freely available for all to study, constitute direct proof that the Church willfully engages in, or has engaged in, human rights abuses -- including monetary extortion of its own members (see the sworn statements of the second-in-command of the Sea Org, 1976), infiltration of US government agencies for the purposes of blackmail and the acquisition of national secrets, and unethical lawsuits designed to ruin individuals who publicly oppose the CoS. I'll privide links to these various legal documents if you like. Or is your stance that these materials are also in error, and/or were fraudulently submitted by people with as-yet unexplained "axes to grind"? Nevermind the hundreds of detailed testimonies from ex-members describing as-yet uninvestigated claims of human rights abuses, including the apparent indentured servitude of children; nevermind, too, my earlier question as to "why so many ex-members would have an 'axe to grind' in the first place". The sheer quantity of such claims -- whether real or deriving from some mass-delusion -- would seem to indicate that something unpleasant and possibly illegal is occurring in the CoS, which warrants further investigation. Your facile dismissal of a possible ongoing catastrophe of mind control, extortion and enforced servitude is baffling, to say the least. These are not crimes applicable in such extreme degrees to other worldwide religious organizations. As I noted above, the current version of the Catholic Church does not face public opposition in the form of hundreds of articles, testimonies and videos of ex-members decrying its abuses in uniformly detailed accounts of clear and obvious human rights violations. -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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LostOnHoth Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 3/5 3:42pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	Yes, it may warrant further investigation but that's about as far as you can go. Court documents are just that "court documents". They contain the allegations, some sworn evidence, a defence and a possible a judgment and that's about it. Without the court judgment at the end, the documents are meaningless. They just tell the plaintiff's side of the story. That evidence should be tested in court. You can't take a sworn statement and hold that up as incontrovertible evidence in support of your claims. I've read the "court documents" and watched the "depostion" posted in this thread and have commented on them above. If you have further stuff then please post away and I'll have a look. I'd like to see copies of an actual court judgment which substantiates the claims being made. As to why there are so may ex-members with an axe to grind - who knows, presumably it is because the Church of Scientology in some parts of the world treats its customers badly and rips them off. That much is pretty evident. There are clearly many thousands of disgruntled ex Scientologists out there. My point is that many of the claims made in this thread are not backed up with anything totally convincing. There may be such evidence out there but I have yet to see it. As I said above, I have an open mind. Your aggressive attitude is unwarranted and uneccesary - you come across like a mouth frothing zealot. I'll say it again, I'm no supporter of Scientology, I don't have an L Ron Hubbard tattoo on my buttocks, but I'm not going to rush to judgement on the basis of what I've seen to date. -----signature----- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
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Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 3/5 4:14pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology - Date Edited: 3/5 4:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Vortigern99
	LostOnHoth, In invite you to indicate any portion of my above dialectic wherein you perceive "aggression" from a "mouth frothing zealot". My aim has not been to attack or insult you, but rather to persuade you to see that your skepticism of the materials at hand comes too easily. Is it possible you're not attending closely enough to what evidence we have, based on your opinion that such materials lack validity because they've not been proven in a court of law? I did not state nor even imply that the evidence is "incontrovertible"; yet it is evidence just the same. I repeat that your dismissal of what I perceive to be evidence -- in a scientific if not a strictly legal sense, as I am not a lawyer -- is "baffling" to me. Mine have not been the words of a "zealot", nor have they been aggressive. I wholeheartedly invite you to continue our disagreement as gentlemen, without recourse to derogatory terms. -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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LostOnHoth Registered: Feb '00	Date Posted: 3/5 5:00pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	Thanks but no thanks. -----signature----- The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore, all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 3/5 7:06pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	Vortigern99 posted: As I noted above, the current version of the Catholic Church does not face public opposition in the form of hundreds of articles, testimonies and videos of ex-members decrying its abuses in uniformly detailed accounts of clear and obvious human rights violations. That's because child molestation victims are usually too ashamed to come out in public. It becomes even more difficult when church administrators engage in cover-up activities.
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Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 3/5 9:29pm Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology
	^ ^ I can only agree with that statement in principle. The difference here is that there have been criminal investigations into and official charges brought against a number of Catholic priests worldwide, many of whom have since been brought to justice. The world is now aware there's a problem with criminal pedophilia in the RC Church. Nothing of the kind, so far as I'm aware, has happened with the CoS (except the US government-infiltration case in 1977, which perhaps is considered acceptable because the US government itself is corrupt? Is that the thinking here?). Instead we have a general disinclination to believe the testimonies of the CoS's ex-members and other detractors, and apparently a dearth of willingness on the part of law-enforcement agencies to properly investigate the accusations of malfeasance coming from former members, whose complaints are far beyond purely monetary in character. -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Darth Geist Registered: Oct '99	Date Posted: 3/9 11:43am Subject: RE: ~The Internet-vs-Scientology~ The War on Scientology - Date Edited: 3/9 11:58am (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth Geist
	This is a transcript of a CoS document seized in an FBI raid. It's a training program on how to make the Church's members better liars. Intelligence Specialist Training Routine - TR L posted: Purpose: To train the student to give a false statement with good TR-1. To train the student to outflow false data effectively. Position: Same as TR-1. Commands: Part l "Tell me a lie". Command given by coach. Part 2 interview type 2 WC by coach. Training Stress: In Part 1 coach gives command, student originates a falsehood. Coach flunks for out TR 1 or TR O. In Part 2 coach asks questions of the student on his background or a subject. Student gives untrue data of a plausible sort that the student backs up with further explanatory data upon the coach [sic] further questions. The coach flunks for out TR O and TR 1, and for student fumbling on question answers. The student should be coached on a gradient until he/she can lie facily. Short example: Coach: Where do you come from? Student: I come from the Housewives Committee on Drug Abuse. Coach: But you said earlier that you were single. Student: Well, actually I was married but am divorced. I have 2 kids in the suburbs where I am a housewife, in fact I'm a member of the P.T.A. Coach: What town is it that you live in? Student: West Brighton. Coach: But there is no public school in West Brighton. Student: I know. I send my children to school in Brighton, and that's where I'm a P.T.A. member. Why does the CoS have a training program to make its members better liars? Also: A very detailed report on the CoS' shady dealings from the St. Petersburg Times. -----signature----- Do not go gentle into that good night. Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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