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Topic:
Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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LtNOWIS
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
4/12 3:57pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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ShaneP posted:
The U.S. is really the exception when it comes to a gun culture in a mature democratic state(Switzerland might be close).
Actually, I hear Finland is really big on guns.
And having all their male citizens be excellent shots was really, really useful when the Soviets invaded.
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
4/20 10:40am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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"Bring your Guns to work Bill"
another link
and another
Although the ruling on the Second Amendment itself could be weeks away, The Lawmakers in Florida have passed what they call the "Keep Guns locked up in your car bill" and critics refer to as the "Bring your guns to work bill"
I supported the idea of this law because if something is locked up in my car then it is no one's concern but my own.
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I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
4/22 10:52am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Bloody Weekend
Link tracker site?
From the article :
* Apr 20, 2008 2:03 pm US/Central*
Bloody Weekend: 32 Shot, 2 Stabbed, 6 Dead
CHICAGO (CBS) ― A violent and deadly weekend continues in Chicago. At least 12 people have been shot, two of them killed, since Saturday morning. Two others were stabbed in a home invasion. This comes after at least 20 people were shot, four of them killed, from Friday night through early Saturday.
Thoughts?
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I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/22 2:45pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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I thought Chicago had a handgun ban?
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
4/22 3:11pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Actually, the .308 cartridge that is also a popular hunting rifle caliber is 7.62mm x51mm (bullet diameter by case length)
Yeah, that is what I hunt with.
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Chipper Jones MVP Watch:
BA: .371 HR: 18 RBI: 54 OBP: 467 SLG: .600
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
4/23 1:17pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
4/23 1:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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A violent and deadly weekend continues in Chicago. At least 12 people have been shot, two of them killed, since Saturday morning. Two others were stabbed in a home invasion. This comes after at least 20 people were shot, four of them killed, from Friday night through early Saturday.
Thoughts?
Springtime in Chicago. Nothing signals better weather like a killing spree.
The NY Times ran an interesting article today. The U.S. imprisons a larger percentage of its population than any nation on earth, with the caveat that China doesn't count political detainees doing hard labor in reeducation camps as "prisoners."
My theory of American crime is a bit counterintuitive. It goes like this: The main result of incarcerating such a large percentage of our population relative to the rest of the world is that we're training bigger numbers of hardened criminals relative to everyone else. American prison is basically boot camp for turning minor criminals into worse criminals, for turning one time criminals into permanent recidivists and converting dangerous criminals into lifetime deadly sociopaths.
To make a long story short: the more people you imprison, the more dangerous criminals you manufacture.
How does this relate to gun laws? I don't know. But it is interesting that we are so dedicated as a nation to producing dangerous people and then creating an environment where guns are so easy for them to get hold of.
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_Darth_Brooks_
Registered:
Sep '00
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Date Posted:
4/23 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
4/23 4:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
_Darth_Brooks_
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Mr. 44 and K2(squared),
Love your posts.
44 your knowledge is a thing to behold. 
Lowbacca, the bumper-sticker bit was hilarious. 
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
4/23 5:56pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Jabbadabbado posted:
My theory of American crime is a bit counterintuitive. It goes like this: The main result of incarcerating such a large percentage of our population relative to the rest of the world is that we're training bigger numbers of hardened criminals relative to everyone else. American prison is basically boot camp for turning minor criminals into worse criminals, for turning one time criminals into permanent recidivists and converting dangerous criminals into lifetime deadly sociopaths.
To make a long story short: the more people you imprison, the more dangerous criminals you manufacture.
How does this relate to gun laws? I don't know. But it is interesting that we are so dedicated as a nation to producing dangerous people and then creating an environment where guns are so easy for them to get hold of.
I have heard this subject discussed on NPR a few times. Inmates say they are looking forward to using the new connections they make in the "big house".
I also have to wonder about the relation of inmates and what crimes they have committed, how many were violent crimes, nonviolent, and how many were victim-less non violent crimes (drug possession, prostitution, etc.).
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I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
4/23 6:34pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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What would be an alternative to imprisonment?
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Chipper Jones MVP Watch:
BA: .371 HR: 18 RBI: 54 OBP: 467 SLG: .600
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/23 6:56pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Hookers and drugs for all.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
4/24 9:22am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Pretty much. I was listening to a radio talk show discussing the drug trade in Chicago. Most of the drug wholesellers are middle class white guys operating out of the financial district, according to "some guy" who claimed to have studied the local drug trade.
Let's say we criminalized the import of plastic toys from China, and our primary enforcement method was arresting the checkout girls at Wal-Mart.
That's pretty much the same as drug enforcement in Chicago. No one ever goes after the wholesellers. It's all about getting the kid on the street corner. As soon as he's arrested, it destabilizes the territory, then other groups of kids come in and fight over it. And that produces a hell of a lot of the "gang violence" in Chicago.
This could all be wrong, by the way. I heard it on Chicago Public radio, so who the hell knows.
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Mr44
Title: Modly McHume:
the Senate
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/24 11:16am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
4/24 11:22am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mr44
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Pretty much. I was listening to a radio talk show discussing the drug trade in Chicago. Most of the drug wholesellers are middle class white guys operating out of the financial district, according to "some guy" who claimed to have studied the local drug trade.
Did NPR actually say "some guy?" Because this guy seems to be completely off the mark. Did the show go into any detail about what his study consisted off?
One of the largest drug busts in Chicago occurred just over 6 months ago, and it specifically involved a major drug whole seller. The bust happened in the "Belmont Cragin" neighborhood, which is classified as the Northwest side and nowhere near the financial district. The dealer who was arrested represented an organized street gang out of Mexico, and had nothing to do with "rich white guys in the financial district." I'd say the arrestee, Oswaldo Sanchez, would probably laugh at white middle class guys.
I'd say, without getting into too much detail, the only reason why the "kid on the corner" would be arrested is to make in-roads into the major dealers. No cop wants to waste their time with an arrest that will most likely result in a city possession charge, or at best, a misdemeanor, while the "big fish" is out there.
The Northwest side, while not having a particularly high crime rate itself, is next to the East and West Garfield Park areas, which besides the South Central area, has one of the highest crime rates in the city. The problem with Garfield Park(s) is that the area experienced a decline after the industrial/post WWII period. Street Gangs take advantage of the abandoned buildings and foreclosed homes (Garfield Park also has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the city.) to organize storage houses for their own narcotic operation.
This guy on NPR is correct in that the drug trade is set up as a big business now, but the control comes from organized street gangs. At least in Chicago, it has nothing to do with random middle class stock brokers.
(Unless there is some ultra level, top secret, Donald Trump type kingpin who is operating in Chicago under the radar of the police. If that was the case, I'd question how the guy on NPR found out about him.) My feeling, without actually hearing the broadcast, is that you were right to be skeptical.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
4/24 11:27am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
4/24 11:30am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Jabbadabbado
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I was waiting for you to step in with some facts. This guy was some kind of social science researcher who was claiming to have spent time with street gangs. It wasn't NPR, it was local, and I missed all the relevant detail about who the speakers were.
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Mr44
Title: Modly McHume:
the Senate
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/24 11:45am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
4/24 12:05pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Mr44
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Well, I'd probably agree that this researcher believed his research, but I wonder how far he vetted it for sympathetic ear syndrome.
Particularly with research like this, sympathetic ear results from the subject telling the researcher what they think he wants to hear. I'd bet that all of us on the boards here are familiar with the term. The concept of loyalty that permeates every level of the organized street gang even amplifies this. No gang member is going to give away details to some outside researcher, and more importantly, the low level member probably doesn't know anything anyway. Additionally, from the kid on the street perspective, the cops are hassling them, so this would be an accurate reality.
Generally crime patterns in Chicago fall along the "broken window" model of tracking. Neighborhoods in Chicago that are well maintained and active have very low crime rates. Neighborhoods that have a lot of "broken windows" and low community involvement have the highest crime rates.
For a comparison-example- The area that has the highest crime rate in the city is Fuller Park, which sits in the "south Central" area. Aproximately 12 blocks or so North sits Bridgeport, which has a low crime rate, and is famous as being the birthplace of Mayor Daley. Now I realize this doesn't have anything to do with drug trafficking per se, but typically, there is very little spill over among areas.
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Mr44
Title: Modly McHume:
the Senate
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/24 11:53am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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It wasn't NPR, it was local, and I missed all the relevant detail about who the speakers were.
91.5?
Heh. See, here's an example of my own bias. I know that WBEZ is a local affiliate of NPR, but honestly, I use them interchangeably without thinking about the difference between the national programming and local ones.
Normally if I'm in my car, I catch All Things Considered, at least until my blood pressure rises to unsafe levels... 
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