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Topic:
Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/3 4:30pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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This is moving aside from the initial point, though, which was that the NRA is combatting the idea that guns cause ONLY problems by pointing to situations where responsible gun owners resolved a conflict. I don't think they're trying to argue that guns are inharently a solution and can't cause problems.
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Odd_Bloke
Registered:
May '08
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Date Posted:
5/3 5:19pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
This is moving aside from the initial point, though, which was that the NRA is combatting the idea that guns cause ONLY problems by pointing to situations where responsible gun owners resolved a conflict. I don't think they're trying to argue that guns are inharently a solution and can't cause problems.
I would agree that this is a reasonable position for second amendment advocates to take (even if I don't believe it is compelling enough to win the argument). Whether or not the NRA takes a reasonable position on the second amendment is something I think is orthogonal to the argument (and much less set in stone).
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The problem with being Democrat is that if you vote for Obama, you're sexist. And if you vote for Hilary, you're racist. Its easy being a Republican. No matter what you're retarded.
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LtNOWIS
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/7 12:59am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Odd_Bloke posted:
LtNOWIS posted:
There are successful armed citizen stories every week. Heck, it's a daily segment on Cam & Company, the daily NRA News radio show. A quick check of their site brings up Would-be robber shot and killed in liquor store
Is it possible, and I don't want to sound cynical here, that the National Rifle Association might have something to gain from portraying gun ownership in a positive light? That they might, in some sense, benefit from ignoring those armed citizen stories which were, perhaps, less than successful?
I'm not saying NRA News is an unbiased source. But they generally link to actual news sources, in that case the primary newspaper of Nashville, Tennessee. It's a hundred years old, with a daily circulation of 175,000. Going to the NRA news website is simply a convenient and easy way to find news stories like that.
Today, they've got a link to Store clerk shoots would-be robber, in Mesa, Arizona. It's not an NRA story; it's a story by the East Valley Tribune, another century old newspaper. The point is that successful uses of firearms in self defense verifiably occur every few days.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/7 1:49pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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It would be nice to have a site that collected the news stories about verifiable self defense and then lined them up side by side with the news stories about kids shooting themselves in the home or spouses shooting each other or neighbors shooting each other because of a dispute over hedge trimming or road rage shootings, etc.
That might give a more balanced anecdotal overview of the effects of widespread gun ownership.
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Malthusian Doomsday Quack
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/7 7:20pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
5/7 7:36pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_SweetPea
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Jabbadabbado posted:
It would be nice to have a site that collected the news stories about verifiable self defense and then lined them up side by side with the news stories about kids shooting themselves in the home or spouses shooting each other or neighbors shooting each other because of a dispute over hedge trimming or road rage shootings, etc.
That might give a more balanced anecdotal overview of the effects of widespread gun ownership.
well the NRA has list A
and "Gun Guys" has list B
almost everyday.
But it's not so much "story for story" as it is understanding what you've read.
Most accidents are easily avoidable, and as we just discussed a few days ago, two people can look at
an incident and have a completely different perceptions about it.
For example, just looking at this data, some would say Firearms need to be banned.
(never mind the fact that "Legal Use" was combined with "Homicide"  , you can trust the CDC  )
However I look at it and think that it's too general, not separating "Legal Use" and "Homicide". It only shows DEATH not incident compared to incident.
Or legally owned firearms compared to Illegally owned firearms.
There are no breakdowns state by state. Or comparisons of different cities.
The United States is just that, we are not one big country, we are a Union of States, each different, Florida Laws are completely different from California Laws (for example)
A single factor may show a clear correlation in one state, but not in another.
*edit-
oh if you haven't decided what to do with you stimulus rebate, how about buy a gun!
I'm getting an AR-15 style stripped down lower receiver like this one, so i can build my own rifle this summer!
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I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/8 6:53am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Unfortunately we won't be getting a stimulus check, so no guns for me or the wife.
Most accidents are easily avoidable.
This is true. But there's often a wide gulf between an easily avoidable accient and actually avoiding it.
It's easy to protect your child in a car by putting him/her into a properly designed saftey seat in the back. But this was not widely done before it was mandated by law. I still see people in cars with unbuckled 3 and 4 year olds riding in the front passenger seat, but not as many as we did 20 years ago.
I made this comparison because, as you can see, I don't really believe we should ban cars (the Malthusian Doomsday Quack should point out here that in 10 years only the very rich will be driving cars). There is alternative legislation that can be extremely helpful in reminding people to avoid easily avoidable accidents. Mandate extra safety locks. Mandate gun safes, etc.
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IceHawk-181
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/8 10:53am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Mandate proper seat-belting techniques and proper sitting postures to increase the efficacy of the seat belt as well. I mean, what’s the point of mandating use if people don’t use it properly? 
Mandating gun locks and gun safes is a much bandied about theory.
It amounts to little more than an indirect tax for those who wish to exercise their 2nd Amendment Rights.
Quite frankly, a gun is perfectly safe loaded, sitting on the floor, underneath a bed.
Within the confines of my own home, my property is my responsibility, and no level of “mandated safety” need interfere.
Why should a gun-owner be forced to purchase “safety equipment” when a 15-minute talk & demonstration with people who live in the house will cover that base? My father had that discussion with my family when I was 12 and my sister 10, and strangely enough neither of us ever ended up shooting each other (with a firearm that is).
Recommend safety locks and gun cabinets, recommend safety instruction, et al.
Mandate nothing inside my home.
Jab posted:
That might give a more balanced anecdotal overview of the effects of widespread gun ownership.
That it would...
It is truly startling just how responsible legal gun owners are...
..almost like they're regular people and not homicidally pre-disposed violent fiends or sumthin... 
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Proof is an interesting phenomena; there is seemingly always an abundance of it when it need not be presented.
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/9 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
5/9 6:06pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_SweetPea
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IceHawk-181 posted:
...Mandate nothing inside my home...
Or maybe you could point out that negligence laws have already mandated that you be safe.
now for my local news
LINK
Man arrested in holdup facing another charge
A Gainesville man arrested last week for robbery is facing an additional robbery charge for a holdup last year at a local dry-cleaning business.
Joe Lee Baker, 41, is accused of robbing Rip's Cleaners, 7341 NW 4th Blvd., on Dec. 28, court records show.
Investigators reported a man armed with a gun robbed the business at about 7:30 a.m. and stole approximately $200.
The case is similar, officers reported, to another holdup that Baker was accused of last week. Baker is suspected of robbing A Storage Center, 6800 W. University Ave., on May 2.
Deputies received a tip about the suspect's location and found Baker, who officers said confessed to the storage center robbery.
A $300,000 bail has been set for Baker's release from the Alachua County jail.
I only knew about this because the guy who manages "A-Storage" told me about it today.
Something missing from the article is that he used a Pellet gun for the robberies.
So even though it was not a true firearm, it will still be listed as an act of
"Gun Violence"
However he will face Florida's 10-20-Life, "Use a Gun and You're Done!" law.
two counts of armed robbery means that, if convicted, he will be locked up for 20 years!
I live close enough to A-Storage to walk to it, from my home or where i work.
I used to ride my bike around that area all the time. So it's another event that hits close to home.
Edit- Sorry I almost forgot why i wanted to share this, We do warn people about this, there are signs like this one
all over the state, radio ads, mall ads, etc.
As a state we try to make it clear to people, that if you "Illegally Use a gun, You're done!"
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I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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LtNOWIS
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
5/17 4:00pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Jabbadabbado posted:
It would be nice to have a site that collected the news stories about verifiable self defense and then lined them up side by side with the news stories about kids shooting themselves in the home or spouses shooting each other or neighbors shooting each other because of a dispute over hedge trimming or road rage shootings, etc.
That might give a more balanced anecdotal overview of the effects of widespread gun ownership.
I'd wager that most cases of armed self defense don't involve shooting, so they mostly don't make the news. So it wouldn't be that balanced.
Most cases of guns used in crime probably don't make the news either; but the argument made by the gun control crowd isn't that guns aid in robbery, it's that guns kill people. And the latter is pretty newsworthy.
Anyways, I might just buy a rifle with my tax rebate/savings, but I also want a video game system. Tough decisions abound.
And, the NRA's annual convention is currently going on in Louisville. Lots of interesting stuff. Some of the guests don't really relate to the gun rights: R. Lee Ermey, Oliver North, and Marcus Luttrell were all quite interesting, but totally off topic. The speeches are currently online.
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Vezner
Registered:
Dec '01
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Date Posted:
5/23 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
- Date Edited:
5/23 3:38pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vezner
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I'm pretty interested in seeing how this plays out. Personally, I think banning firearms is about as smart as prohibition. In theory it's a nice idea, but in practice it can have very negative consequences.
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God Bless George W. Bush and the USA. I support the troops that are fighting and dying for our Freedom! Christians have rights of expression too.  "The only thing necessary for the triumph [of evil] is for good men to do nothing." --Edmund Burke
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
5/24 4:18am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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I'd disagree that prohibition is even a nice idea in theory.
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Jabbadabbado
Registered:
Mar '99
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Date Posted:
5/24 4:26am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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I'd disagree that the second amendment is a nice idea in theory. It's been about as helpful as if the founding fathers had slipped a dirty limerick or a knock-knock joke into the text of the constitution. Dropping their breeches and mooning the future.
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
5/25 4:09pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Well you have to keep in mind they were thinking of something like Switzerland's Militia.
IF our armed forces were made up of Militia by a large majority then going around and
starting undeclared wars in the middle east would not be so likely.
Instead we seem to have maintained a large standing military, bringing about what Dwight D. Eisenhower called a military-industrial complex.
So really, which one is better in theory?
I say "An Armed society is a polite society"
Unless it's an armed society of State Troopers who assault an elderly woman in her home after a hurricane.
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I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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rogue_wookiee
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
6/26 9:56am
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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Well, it's official.
Thoughts? Comments? Cries of agony?
I have to say this is the best news I've heard come out of Washington in a long time. Normally I am a large proponent of local over state legistlation, but this is a fundamental right of the American people. Even though this doesn't affect me personally it is, sadly, a huge gain for our civil liberties in the U.S.
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We are taxed without consent.
Inflation is essentially theft.
The government is infringing on our civil liberties.
Think about it for a second.
Didn't we already have a revolution over issues like these?
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Master_SweetPea
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
6/26 12:56pm
Subject:
RE: Oh second amendment strife, how I've missed you.
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while I'm happy that the Supreme court decided to read the Constitution as it is written, instead of change it at will.
I wonder where we will go from here. 
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I don't like the donkeys and I don't like the Elephants http://www.lp.org "Some people never have anything except ideas Go Do it! Lucky Numbers 3, 11, 21, 31, 41, 43"
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