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Author	Topic: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
Emperor_Billy_Bob Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 4/10/08 12:40pm Subject: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	It seems nearly undeniable that the US's worldwide popularity has fallen sharply since the US led Invasion of Iraq (I know some of you might not have heard of this, It doesn't get much discussion time ) Many people perceive the US as an Imperialist nation, wantonly bullying the world and throwing around its power (in a way that was acceptable 100 years ago, but now is not "okay"), a nation which disregards international law when it sees fit. Many people perceive the US as the greatest threat to international stability. However, contemplating the eventual rise of a new Superpower (be it China, India, Russia, the EU, what have you), I can't help but wonder if the new balance of power that would emerge from such a development would be the very best thing possible for America's international standing. It would take the pressure off of America as the (booming voice) World's Lone Superpower (C). I think Americans are fundamentally uncomfortable with power politics. We like to play by the rules and have other countries like us. When we go to war, we usually need a "moral" reason, so the government leads us along by bellowing things like "freedom" and "democracy". A rise in power of China (which, as most of us know, is underway, but God knows where it will end) might throw the Authoritarian nature of the Chinese superpower into sharp contrast with the more benign nature of US foreign policy (assuming the Chinese try to assert global power and aren't simply concerned to fiddle around in East Asia) and remind everyone of the Cold War days when we actually looked good. A rise in power of say, the European Union, would provide America with a powerful and probably likeminded ally with similiar values and shared cultural history. Assuming that the EU develops a European wide military, I would say that the USA and EU allied together would be capable of balancing the threat of a resurgent China. A rise in power of India, which is a Democratic nation, might provide America with a useful balance (not to mention a huge manpower source) against the rising Chinese threat. Of course, all of these changes would require America to fundamentally acknowledge that it is no longer world hegemon. -----signature----- "I'd hit it." - Lord Vivec in regards to Adolf Hitler
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Jabbadabbado Title: Senate Floor Manager Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 4/10/08 12:53pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world? - Date Edited: 4/10/08 12:55pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Jabbadabbado
	For many years I was of the opinion that an important result of the Iraq war would be to expose the limits of America's superpower status, that over the long term it would encourage an unstated multinational effort to contain the geopolitical and military influence of the U.S. It hasn't happened that way. Now, I'm right most of the time about almost everything, but I wasn't right about this. Yes, the Iraq fiasco has exposed the limits of the U.S. military as an occupying force in an unhospitable foreign setting. But so what? It's also made it absolutely clear that there is no other game in town, nor will any other game emerge anytime soon. Maybe in 25 years. Eventually, China will have the industrial capacity to build up its armed forces to superpower status, but it's not there yet and won't be for a while. So, to sum up, there's no sign of any return to a "balance of power" world geopolitical scenario. There is as yet no viable counterweight to American power. -----signature----- "There is a country out there where tens of millions of white Christians, voting freely, selected as their leader a black man of modest origin, the son of a Muslim. There is a place on Earth - call it America - where such a thing happens."
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Mr44 Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/10/08 1:05pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Yes, you are absolutely correct about the lack of an alternative. For the West at least, this relationship was cultivated by design though. And I would echo your "so what" attitude. I just can't help wonder about all the importance placed on Iraq as a foreign policy based operation. Didn't Korea also illustrate the limit of the US's superpower status? After 58,000 combat deaths on the US side, it resulted in a partitioning of a country, gave rise to the worst rogue nation in post WWII history, and a 50 year, long term US military presence. How about Vietnam, and its numerous illustrations? Even the first Desert Storm, and its resulting check in the "win" column, demonstrated policy limits. The point is that since the end of WWII and the rise of the US as a superpower, and then lone hyperpower, there have been examples every decade for the past 60 years of the limitations of such status. Even so, no one else has wanted to step up, or is capable of stepping up and assuming the role. -----signature----- When you enter a room full of armed men, shoot the first person who makes a move- hostile or otherwise He has started to think and is therefore dangerous... -- Colonel "Paddy" Mayne, co-founder of the SAS
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Jabbadabbado Title: Senate Floor Manager Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 4/10/08 1:23pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	In short, the world puts up with our blunders, even if they're on the scale of Iraq, because we anchor the world order and provide a level of stability that no one else can provide. -----signature----- "There is a country out there where tens of millions of white Christians, voting freely, selected as their leader a black man of modest origin, the son of a Muslim. There is a place on Earth - call it America - where such a thing happens."
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Mr44 Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/10/08 1:26pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Can't disagree with that sentiment at all... -----signature----- When you enter a room full of armed men, shoot the first person who makes a move- hostile or otherwise He has started to think and is therefore dangerous... -- Colonel "Paddy" Mayne, co-founder of the SAS
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 4/10/08 1:37pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Now, I'm right most of the time about almost everything And about War of the Worlds . -----signature----- Omar: "Can you fix this, Joe?" clock bangs on table Prop Joe: "What's the problem?" Omar: "Run out of time."
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Jabbadabbado Title: Senate Floor Manager Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 4/10/08 1:45pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	*********! I can't believe you remember that. Ok, so I'm right some of the time about one or two things. -----signature----- "There is a country out there where tens of millions of white Christians, voting freely, selected as their leader a black man of modest origin, the son of a Muslim. There is a place on Earth - call it America - where such a thing happens."
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king_alvarez Registered: May '07	Date Posted: 4/10/08 2:21pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Jabbadabbado posted: So, to sum up, there's no sign of any return to a "balance of power" world geopolitical scenario. There is as yet no viable counterweight to American power. Yes, but if it were to occur, would that be more beneficial to either America or the world (or both) or would it hurt things? -----signature----- Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?" Because life... is not a movie. Everyone lies. Good guys lose. And love... does not conquer all.
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Emperor_Billy_Bob Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 4/10/08 2:46pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Yeah, most of this discussion is mildly OT. I don't think anyone is really of the opinion that the US is going under in the next 50 years or so, but even so, it doesn't take a weatherman to know which way the wind is blowing. -----signature----- "I'd hit it." - Lord Vivec in regards to Adolf Hitler
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Darth_Omega Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/10/08 3:18pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Actually according to the BBC the World views the US more positively and depending on the result of the upcoming election it might increase in the coming years. Anyway I truly wonder at the moment if China is going to become a world power same with India due to rising food prices and oil e.g. limited natural resources. Its like catching up with the lead scorer in hungry hungry hippo with limited balls.
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Emperor_Billy_Bob Registered: Aug '00	Date Posted: 4/10/08 3:20pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	And as we all know the US wins on account of balls. -----signature----- "I'd hit it." - Lord Vivec in regards to Adolf Hitler
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Jabbadabbado Title: Senate Floor Manager Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 4/11/08 4:04am Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	As I said, the U.S. anchors the world order. I don't know if that's good or bad, because I don't know what will replace it when U.S. power goes into relative decline as it probably already has begun to do and in any case eventually must do. Will it be a balance of competing powers between China, India, Western Europe and North America? Will it be a more highly fractured world than it most certainly already is? Will western civilization fail entirely? -----signature----- "There is a country out there where tens of millions of white Christians, voting freely, selected as their leader a black man of modest origin, the son of a Muslim. There is a place on Earth - call it America - where such a thing happens."
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Dark_side_fatty Registered: Oct '02	Date Posted: 4/11/08 1:17pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Jabbadabbado posted: Will western civilization fail entirely? Spengler certainly seemed to think so.
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Tactic_Thrawn Registered: Jul '06	Date Posted: 4/15/08 1:10pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	Not only would the United States not benefit from a multipolar world, but the WORLD would not benefit from a multipolar world. When several nations have nuclear weapons, a unipolar world is the safest option, particularly a single world government. Note that this is not to state that a single government would be a good and just government. Personally would oppose the world being turned into a single state--though primarily on religious grounds rather than secular ones. A multipolar world with numerous powers armed with the ability to destroy all human life on Earth while space colonization is not feasible is a recipe for disaster. In contrast, if there had to be governments with nukes, then a single state would reduce the risk of human annihilation considerably. As is, the United States and Russia have over a thousand nukes. China could have over a hundred while India, Pakistan, the UK, and France could have dozens. Israel has a few. In a multipolar world, dueling powers could lob a huge number of these weapons at each other. In a single state, nuclear power would be regulated and monitored by a single government. At most, some would be criminals could bribe nuclear workers for radioactive material and try to produce a bomb or two. Thousands of bombs would be unfeasible. (Ironically, this seems a very Galactic Empire type argument). There could be little 'burps' of violence, but not warfare that threatens the survival of the human race. And as science progresses, and nanotechnology and genetic modification come into their own, the government will become more authoritarian and freedom will be curtailed. In the future, fabricating a virus--a biological one--could be easier than creating a computer virus today, and humans would be killed, not computers. -----signature----- What's Christianity? John 3:16. Simple as that. Personally happen to be a Christian. That's not remotely the same as a perfect Christian. http://scifi4.blogspot.com/
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Princess_Tina Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 4/15/08 1:25pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	I think there's very different ways of looking at whether or not one country is a superpower. Obviously, the military perspective is the first that comes to mind, I think. But how likely are we to really see military confrontations between countries that have nuclear capability? It could so easily escalate into WW3 that I think chances are cooler heads will prevail. As for the global conflicts that are likely to take place, the U.S. has been rather overextended fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq, by most accounts. If some new trouble spot required some sort of immediate military intervention, the U.S. might not be able to do much. On economic matters, on the other hand, the U.S. is obviously going through a rough spot, although this can in turn reverberate across the globe. Still, the economic power of Asia and the European Union, if they work together, probably could be a formidable counterpoint to U.S. economic policy. Having said that, I think there's an emerging consensus within the G7 countries that a weak dollar isn't likely to benefit anyone.
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Thunderstruck Registered: Apr '08	Date Posted: 4/17/08 7:30pm Subject: RE: Would America benefit from a multi-polar world?
	History is doomed to repeat itself. Why should the 'New Superpower' be any different from the United States? I find it absurd that people can think if a new superpower arises it will be stable. -----signature----- Are you looking for an honest, competitive Xbox360 Clan? Look no Further DiRE Clan is the place for you www.direclan.co.nr
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