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Topic:
Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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Thunderstruck
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/18 3:50pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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Princess_Tina posted:
Souderwan posted:
A black person must be extra cautious to appear as non-threatening to his/her white colleagues as possible in order to ensure s/he remains competitive.
Can you be more specific as to what might make a person appear threatening or non-threatening? Is it a matter of the clothes one wears? The language one uses? The tone of voice or accent? Is it simply a matter of appearing polite? One's age or gender?
I can think of plenty of people or types of people that I would find "threatening"or potentially threatening. The biggest common denominator, for me at least, would be that they are male, and more specifically, that they appear to be the aggressive male type. Race or skin colour probably wouldn't be nearly as important a factor. However, I do think that socioeconomic status plays a big part in many cases in how "threatening" these individuals might appear to me. (Not that there aren't plenty of non-threatening types among people from all over the socioeconomic spectrum).
Why do you constantly need clarifying on everything?
A Black person must be extra cautious to appear as non-threatening to his/her white colleagues as possible
That's not a very hard line to follow. Remaining Calm, Controlled and Cool in every situation would be a good start.
And you're saying you wouldn't find a built black male to be as threatening as a white male? I find that very hard to believe (I myself feel this way).
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/18 3:56pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
- Date Edited:
4/18 3:58pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Princess_Tina
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Why do you feel the need to try to speak for Souderwan?
Thunderstruck posted:
And you're saying you wouldn't find a built black male to be as threatening as a white male? I find that very hard to believe (I myself feel this way).
No, I wouldn't feel that way, all other things being equal, I wouldn't determine that based exclusively on skin colour. As I just said in the previous post, there are any number of other factors that would matter, and skin colour isn't one of them for me. And I'm very sorry that you would judge based exclusively on skin colour.
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Thunderstruck
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/18 3:58pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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So am I.
I don't like to lie about things I feel, simply because it would be 'Politically Incorrect'.
Not to say I don't have any black friends, it's just the first impression I get.
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:00pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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So what do you think makes it so hard for you to be colour-blind in this regard?
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Thunderstruck
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:13pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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I don't know. Not so much the colour of their skin, but physical stature.
Most black people I come across are taller than me (I'm 5'11) So probably physical intimidation, not colour.
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:19pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
- Date Edited:
4/18 4:20pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Princess_Tina
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Thunderstruck posted:
I don't know. Not so much the colour of their skin, but physical stature.
Most black people I come across are taller than me (I'm 5'11) So probably physical intimidation, not colour.
So now it's not a matter of skin colour? You were the one who said you'd find black guys more threatening than white guys. You didn't say that you felt taller guys than yourself were more intimidating or threatening that those who were your same height or shorter.
So now tell me -- would you find a built white guy who is 6'5" to be threatening or potentially threatening?
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Souderwan
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:23pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
- Date Edited:
4/18 4:25pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Souderwan
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Princess_Tina posted:
So what do you think makes it so hard for you to be colour-blind in this regard?
Because there's no such thing as being color blind. That's one of the many fabrications of our time and one of the many reasons why conversations about race degrade so quickly. Yes, there are exceptions, Tina, and you appear to be one of them. In general, many whites are uncomfortable around blacks when they first meet a person who is black--even for whites who have grown up around minorities, and many black people are uncomfortable around whites as well.
The kinds of things whites might worry about in a work environment, when meeting a black coworker, for example:
1. Is this person an "angry black man/woman"?
2. Is this person here because s/he belongs here or because of some Affirmative Action program? If s/he's not qualified, can I say so freely without being considered a racist?
3. Is this person going to gel with the rest of the team or is s/he going to stick out like a sore thumb?
4. Do I have anything in common with this person?
etc.
The kinds of things blacks might worry about in a work environment, when meeting a white coworker:
1. Is this person worried I'm an "angry black man/woman"?
2. Does this person think I'm here because of Affirmative Action as opposed to my actual qualifications? If I screw up, will the person be strong enough to just tell me? Is this person a racist?
3. Am I going to gel with the rest of the team or am I going to stick out like a sore thumb?
4. Do I have anything in common with this person?
Most of these questions aren't unique to any given work environment and meeting new people, but the questions about "angry black man/woman" and about whether or not a person is racist or will be considered a racist are.
In any case, there is a fair amount of pressure on the black person to set the white person's mind at ease. This means dressing a certain way, being polite and casual, brushing off what might normally be offensive so as to avoid making waves, smiling a lot and being inviting and warm, and speaking as "properly" as possible. In other words, you have to be the anti-stereotype. Of course, once you're the anti-stereotype, you start getting accused of being a sellout by other blacks, but that's a whole other discussion.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:24pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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Tina, you asked him to explain it, and he's doing so. You can't then complain that when he's trying to figure out why, he's suggested another correlation that'd match up and also explain it, especially as he didn't even say its definitly that and already acknowledged that race could be playing a factor still.
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Thunderstruck
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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Ahhhh.
Fine let me rephrase that. It depends on a myraid of different factors.
And if we're talking about two physically inclined people (lol) yes, I would probably find a black male more threatening than a white male at the same height.
Maybe it is personal experience, I don't know. I am not a racist, I do not hate them by any stretch of the imagination. I am just more intimidated by them for some odd reason.. 
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:29pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
- Date Edited:
4/18 4:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Princess_Tina
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Souderwan posted:
In any case, there is a fair amount of pressure on the black person to set the white person's mind at ease. This means dressing a certain way, being polite and casual, brushing off what might normally be offensive so as to avoid making waves, smiling a lot and being inviting and warm, and speaking as "properly" as possible. In other words, you have to be the anti-stereotype. Of course, once you're the anti-stereotype, you start getting accused of being a sellout by other blacks, but that's a whole other discussion.
Well I hope I didn't offend anyone by just asking. I'm just thinking about the ways in which what you have described could be compared and contrasted to the situation for Latinos, but I probably should think about it a bit more. So I'll just try to get back to that later.
Thunderstruck posted:
Ahhhh.
Fine let me rephrase that. It depends on a myraid of different factors.
And if we're talking about two physically inclined people (lol) yes, I would probably find a black male more threatening than a white male at the same height.
Maybe it is personal experience, I don't know. I am not a racist, I do not hate them by any stretch of the imagination. I am just more intimidated by them for some odd reason..
Well I think I understood it a little better this time. Thank you for trying to clarify it.
I'm just thinking generally of all the factors that play a role in our perceptions and interpretations of what we see in other people. For me personally, I would always find much more threatening or potentially threatening a male who came across as a homophobe, no matter the skin colour. And that's just one of several possible factors that, for me, would totally override anything having to do with ethnicity or skin colour.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
- Date Edited:
4/18 4:35pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lowbacca_1977
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Or Irish. Or Mormons. And anyone from the Middle-East is totally stuck.
Though I will add, things like the Irish do, to large extent, show that racism by colour is very subjective based on where you are. In Ireland/England historically, the Irish were fairly well spotted and looked down upon.... and the Irish immigrants were discriminated against in the U.S.
However, once they'd been here a generation or two and lost Irish accents and stopped speaking Irish, they fit the U.S.'s definition of white. Something that they couldn't really do in Ireland compared to the English.
I had a professor that talked about a similar thing with a friend she knew that came to the U.S. from Brazil, where in Brazil, she was 'white' and had to go through a period of adjustment when she came to the U.S. because it was a different spectrum where she was now considered a 'person of colour' a label she wasn't used to having.
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Thunderstruck
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:34pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
Or Irish. Or Mormons. And anyone from the Middle-East is totally stuck.
I wouldn't say Irish.
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Lowbacca_1977
Title: Senate Moderator
Registered:
Jun '06
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:37pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
- Date Edited:
4/18 4:41pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Lowbacca_1977
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Thunderstruck posted:
Lowbacca_1977 posted:
Or Irish. Or Mormons. And anyone from the Middle-East is totally stuck.
I wouldn't say Irish.
Four words from our history "Irish need not apply"
There was a very strong history of discrimation toward the Irish, the Irish just were able to blend in over time relativly easily because the distinction of the Irish wasn't as big as it is with other groups. Just like Southern/Eastern Europeans faced significant discrimination as well when they first started coming to the U.S.
EDIT: To clarify it becomes issue, I am by no means saying that what these groups faced puts it on par with what all other groups faced. More just commenting how discrimination was, at one point, also fairly present within the catagory we now lump together as 'white'.
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Princess_Tina
Registered:
May '01
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:48pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
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Lowbacca_1977 posted:
Four words from our history "Irish need not apply"
There was a very strong history of discrimation toward the Irish, the Irish just were able to blend in over time relativly easily because the distinction of the Irish wasn't as big as it is with other groups. Just like Southern/Eastern Europeans faced significant discrimination as well when they first started coming to the U.S.
EDIT: To clarify it becomes issue, I am by no means saying that what these groups faced puts it on par with what all other groups faced. More just commenting how discrimination was, at one point, also fairly present within the catagory we now lump together as 'white'.
Well, that's a point that is worth remembering. Sure there has been discrimination and prejudice against each succeeding waves of newcomers, like the Irish, and Southern/Eastern Europeans, but they were obviously able to blend into the mainstream "white culture" much faster. Even Asian-Americans sometimes seem to have an easier time integrating than Latinos or African-Americans.
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Thunderstruck
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/18 4:54pm
Subject:
RE: Reverse-Racism, Reverse-Sexism, Reverse-Anything.
- Date Edited:
4/18 4:54pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Thunderstruck
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Hmm.. That's a new one. Asians blended in faster?
With all that 'Pearl Harbor' business I would have thought it would be much, much harder for them to assimilate into American culture. Especially with all of the racism and hatred towards them in WWII? Interment camps and such.
EDIT: Yes, I did take into account that you said 'sometimes' but still I think it was much harder for them.
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